Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/5rqkyu/canadian_ppl_to_uk_ppl/dd9v8cb/
A UK citizen living in Canada asked for advice about learning to fly in Canada and what would be need to be done on his eventual return, and someone pipes up with:
Several of my more experienced flying friends explained that learning the initial PPL in NA is a bad idea – the airspace is so not-busy that it’s unrealistic for UK.
Learning to fly there and then flying in the UK is almost dangerous.
“Learning to fly in North America then flying in the UK is almost dangerous”? Please! Do these people not realise that there are major metropolitan areas in north America with GA traffic levels orders of magnitude higher than anywhere in the UK? Do they think someone learning to fly in Scotland will be dangerous because the airspace is “so not busy” in certain places in Scotland or northern England?
Personally I just think it’s sour grapes and put about by the same people who think the IMC rating (now IR(R)) is strictly “for emergency use” etc.
I think you actually learn a hell a lot more by getting out of your country and do things differently.
And this does not just apply to flying…
Also the idea that you’ll be a dangerous pilot if you don’t learn around London’s m25 is ridiculous. But hey that is where I did my ppl, so I must be a pro!
Learning around London, in my case:
- you don’t learn you can easily transit control airspace (in fact, some instructors look at your incredulously a bit later if you say you transited via gatwick overhead or something like that)
- you don’t learn proper tower procedures. First time I had to cross a runway (taxi clearance was “via …”), controller had to shout to stop, as I was naively going to cross the runway (after checking had a ton of time, as someone was just about to turn final, so it was safe).
alioth wrote:
the IMC rating (now IR(R)) is strictly “for emergency use” etc.
Sorry don’t you mean, your get out of jail card……..that and spam cans, mickey mouse rating, etc etc. Some people spout incredible nonsense. Generally to cover up their own shortcomings.
What would be a revelation for the UK, is if more folks took decent ground school as they undertake their PPL. Some threads, not on here, have shown a staggering lack of knowledge on basic airmanship, met, and physics in general. Careful up there, these folks are flying about…….
geekyflyer wrote:
I think you actually learn a hell a lot more by getting out of your country and do things differently.
What’s the point of learning how to “do things differently” if my intention is to fly here? I better learn how to it where I am going to fly. Of course it will do no harm to do some training elswhere.
And regarding the original topic: The United States are really huge. I know people who learnt to fly at some small airfield in Arizona who never saw a cloud from close-up and probably never had more than two aircraft on their frequency. Cross-country flying meant following an east-west highway for two hours in easterly direction and then turning around and following it for another two hours in the opposite way. This kind of training is really totally useless for someone who will later be based in the greater London area and faced with European weather.
Training on the East coast of the US or within the large agglomerations of California (where the weather is still to good to prepare him for England…) is more useful. But in my experience this is not where the majority of students go.
Wherever you get your training, it will never prepare you for all conceivable situations. I think so long as people take steps after the initial license issue to progress learning, explore new things, countries, etc… I don’t think there’s a problem.
I trained in California – so yes: No cloud exposure, almost no X-wind exposure, but reasonably complex airspace around San Diego and a very busy controlled training airfield with two parallel runways and exposure to mountainous terrain on X-country flights. I took an instructor for three hours when I came back home to familiarize myself with the area. A few weeks later, I started flying to the islands to increase X-wind exposure (and to eat fresh fish, of course) and I used what I had learned in met theory to judge the WX. I’m still alive…
I can say with some authority that flying America is the one thing that prevented me from becoming one of Peter’s favourite statistics, “The proportion of newly minted PPL’s who never fly again”. Somehow I battled my way through chaotic UK PPL training, obtuse and obstructive bureaucracy, inevitably cancelled lessons, defective aircraft and numerous other pitfalls that await someone who wants to spend £000’s of their own money on flight training in UK. (And as a fresh PPL, I then moved on to the issues of renting poorly maintained aircraft, arcane and stupid regulations, malevolent ATC, appalling weather and perplexing paperwork).
My flying might well have (forgive the pun!) petered out if I had not started flying in Las Vegas, where traffic easily outstrips the home counties, with an FBO who just tossed the keys across the desk to me and ATC who said things like “would you like a strip tour?”.
So to me the answer is simple: learn in Arizona, fly in England. Once you’ve gained enough confidence to fly the aeroplane, you can put up with being shouted at by ATC, airfield owners, other pilots etc.(and even the weather). And never, ever, shout back because you’ve seen the other world, where everything just works properly, and simply smile in response.
alioth wrote:
initial PPL in NA is a bad idea – the airspace is so not-busy that it’s unrealistic for UK.
Haha, I got my PPL in Haverfordwest and didn’t even touch controlled airspace :)
Aveling wrote:
So to me the answer is simple: learn in Arizona, fly in England. Once you’ve gained enough confidence to fly the aeroplane, you can put up with being shouted at by ATC, airfield owners, other pilots etc.(and even the weather). And never, ever, shout back because you’ve seen the other world, where everything just works properly, and simply smile in response.
Absent a ‘thumbs up’ smiley: you nailed it!
@what_next: no cloud, no x-wind? Ever been to L.A. ?
Alioth it also puzzles me – I suspect a significant proportion of active, and safe, PPLs in Europe have either trained in North America, or operate in Europe with an FAA licence.
There are several factors why the safety record is better in the USA, including probably better overall infrastructure, but the good training organisations in the USA are professional and competent.
If I have any criticism, it is, ironically, related to the good infrastructure, which usually means some USA trained pilots are only used to 5,000 foot plus runways and need some short field technique training when transitioning to our more grassroots environment.
