LeSving wrote:
Whenever I hear autopilot and updated avionics in the same sentence I always think of X-Plane. I have promised myself to stop giving advice about planes. People get the strangest things anyway, to their heart’s desires.
Isn’t it great that there’s something for everyone in flying?
If you’re starting out a Robin DR400-180 is safe, capable and an easy resell. You could build 200hrs on it and sell it for the same price within a week. I have a nice 90’s one off market, it would be like money in the bank if you bought it.
Could sell your our TR182 just the same but it might not be right for a first aircraft. Gear/No Wastegate/CS prop/Cowl flaps all to consider in flight.
Domenico wrote:
I prefer to have 4 seat to take my family with me and doing IFR is an option that I am evaluating.
You want to fly a with 4 people (kids?) with bags and all the stuff required for a vacation by airplane? You need a six seater.
Otherwise, all the planes will have individual pros and cons.
SR22 – nice cabin, expensive, old avidyne suite, 165kts,
DA40 – jet a/ diesel, economical, awkward seats, 135ktd
C182 – old, good payload, expensive to buy, gas guzzler
TB20 – hard to find,
etc.. etc..
Conclusion: check sale listings, try to find out what you really need (how often will you really fly with your family → don’t forget weather/organizing/hassle…).
SRTB20/21, P28T (Turbo arrow). PA28 (Archer, Arrow), DA40 etc..
Dr400/180 unbeatable in it’s class by a mile.
Unfortunately very rare to find with reasonable avionics. The airframe is timeless but most have a panel that looks terrible.
I’d love to have the money to get one and do a serious upgrade.
However in Italian Wx (scorching sunshine) I’d be 182 all day long.
Shade while flying, shade while parked/ loading etc. Shelter if it rains.
Load hauler, grass stripper, genuine 135kts+ uncomplicated well-known airframe.
The best bit, will be that if you buy a good one, you can try it for a year and sell it easily.
Once you’ve had a year of fun flying, you can decide if you love it or want something else.
Personally I’d seriously consider a fixed gear 182 especially as a 1st aircraft ownership, not that I’d avoid retractable. But 1 fairly major thing less to worry about for a 1st purchase. (I Didn’t take my own advice though)
They are a bit of a gas guzzler compared to some more modern airframes but believe me as an owner, the difference in fuel cost is a relatively insignificant figure when everything else is factored in.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Isn’t it great that there’s something for everyone in flying?
Indeed. But it makes suggesting a plane to someone else a bit nonsensical 
With all respect to DR400 I have been using for some time, they are plenty of advantages, but confort is not one of them. If you want to travel, and if your children are expected to grow, try before to buy. These are good and easy to fly, very forgiving.
If you want to travel with confort for 4 people, consider also Comanche, hard to find especially in good shape, but also Cherokee 6 family. Like C182, they can take a lot of load, and also has short field landing capabilities (bit less than 182), lof of place inside, and also old and quite expensive to find and buy with respect to the age. They are concerned by the recent wing spar AD, look carefully to this unless you will throw your money by the window.
I deseperate to find one in a good shape and not too old and expensive… but keep looking.
Me personnal experience on that (3y and 300hrs flying).
-DA40 is good for 3, not enough load for 4, and very expensive to buy. You also need a diesel plane engine specialist not too far. Easy to fly but lot of ground effect.
-DR400, pleasant to fly, but very unpleasant even in small turbulence, too few place inside, stick is very intrusive on the right place, nice load and rate of climb,
-TB10 (and I suppose TB20), confortable but not too big inside, front and rear. TB10 is really not enough powerfull for such a weight, but TB20 may be better on this point. You have to like it to buy it, because it’s a kind of different place with dashboard in a Renault19 style. I assume TB20 is nice, but I don’t like TB10.
-C182: as well as 172, if it is in good shape, you won’t loose a bit, it’s a sure plane. It is the average in all: speed, good load, easy maintenance.
-PA28/32: same as C172, except it’s a bit faster, but a bit less unpleasant to land, more rigid to fly in turbulences. But as you fly it, you know it. Arrow 4 is a bit different but a breeze in cruise.
I’m looking for trying a SR22 of a friend, i’m not in for this one as he’s asking 200k for a G2 deiced IFR which is too much for me. Cherokee 6 are better in all but speed and chute. I am also considering a twin in a syndicate, probably a twinco or a NA seneca, we just missed a very good one 2 weeks ago.
Not an unbiased opinion but I would go for the Robin having done some 400 hours in different versions.Perhaps the President woul suit if you need more space.All models perform well on grass (though not a bush plane) and from 160hp have good take off and climb performance.
It is a bit bumpy in turbulence but the DA40 is much the same.
They come in Lyco/conti, diesel, or Rotax versions.
If you look at a range of aircraft which would be considered in the same class, an if you carried out an exercise of allocating points for each individual item the Robin would come out top.
Eg it is not as fast as some but it uses less fuel than them, has better useful load and is better on grass.
A Cessna 182 will carry more and is better on grass but uses more fuel and is not as fast.
The downside of the Robin is that it’s design has been around for years, they do not have plush interiors like the Cirrus nor the chute. And finding one with modern avionics is difficult.
But if you try a Robin and like it, it might be worth having a word with Robin itself to see what avionics could be retrofitted and what the cost would be.
They are all hand made which has both good and bad points.
But all the aircraft mentioned here are good and most have been around a while and have a proven record of reliability.
We have a PA32-260 to sell, priced that you could upgrade to your heart’s content. My friend is doing a refurb on a TB10 it would be a good one to update as he’s an avionics tech and you could put whatever you wanted into it, it’s about €70k. Someone was talking to me about selling a 182Q during the week with nice paint/interior/panel if you are going that road. Our advertised TR182 will have the 430W and fresh IFR checks by mid march.
Another thing which is very important for someone new to the ownership game, is to buy as far up the quality scale as possible.
The lower you go
An expert on a particular type, who knows how the “scene” works, can buy an old plane no problem. For example I could buy an old heap of a 1984 TB20, say 50k, spend 100k on it, and have a “old but nice” plane. Would I recommend such a huge exercise to someone new? Absolutely not.
The threads below “Threads possibly related to this one” are worth reading too.
Everybody loves a particular type, especially if they own it. Some of them are not really suitable for a novice owner though, due to the condition they are typically found in.
greg_mp wrote:
TB20 may be better on this point. You have to like it to buy it, because it’s a kind of different place with dashboard in a Renault19 style.
I recall a review of the TB20 in some magazine when it was new. They wrote that despite the panel looking like it is from a French car, all controls are actually where you would expect them to be. Anyway, I love it!
