I was talking about flying to France on G-reg using UK NPPL in 2010, that disapeared when LAPL was introduced, but now it’s comming back to fahsion post-Brexit, the only difference now you can self-declare NPPL with PMD instead of having Class 2 medical, there were no 28 days limit in the previous CAA/DGAC agreement and it was more than just PtF, it also included CoFA…
I remember some years ago there was talk of Brit pilots pushing for being able to fly in France on a G reg on an NPPL licence. I don’t recall it ever coming to anything.
However the the bilateral agreement with the LAA was put in place. It was for the UK CAA/LAA to decide who could fly those aircraft and what the limits were. I may be wrong but I believe it was a UK CAA regulation that limited NPPLs to UK boundaries.
I’m not sure the DGAC were ever consulted during the bilateral negotiations on the subject of NPPL licences.
Since EASA, France gave up some of its sovereignty over EASA and ICAO certified aircraft in favour of more open skies in Europe.
AIUI for the aircraft which makes up part of this bilateral agreement ie permit to fly, it is for the LAA to agree that the aircraft is fit to fly. It is for the UK CAA to decide on who can fly that aircraft, what licence they need and what medical. If the CAA were to say the pilot needs a class 2 medical or the LAA were to say the aircraft needs a mode S transponder, then that is what the aircraft or pilot has to have to fly in France. If it says as it does that an NPPL can be flown on a self declared medical and no transponder is necessary then under the limitations set out in the bilateral agreement of 28day limit and VFR day only then that is okay but one must still obey French airspace rules over French territory. The agreement would appear to give some more favourable conditions to UK NPPL pilots than to French pilots.
However there are some on here who really have their finger on the pulse when it comes to regulations and I’m sure they will correct any errors or omissions I have made.
Just a minor point:
On my reading of the French regulation and associated LAA explanation, Brits can fly their “permit-to-fly” (non-certified) aircraft in France for 28 days with any combination of licence and “medical” which is valid in UK airspace.
So one can use, for instance, a full ICAO PPL with self-declared medical fitness (PMD).
And yes, this looks like a concession which confers rights not (yet) available to (non microlight) French pilots.
It will surely expose and undermine the whole ICAO Class1/2/3 AME scam.
France has never gone past AME scam for recreational flying, even for glider pilots it’s LAPL or PPL medical as local papers were abolished recently, so most aged pilots who lost their LAPL will go Microlights or hang around in the bar
However, many single seaters SEP and light double seaters that people can fly on NPPL with no pax restriction can be registered as ULM and flown on ULM licence, so in theory one can fly SEP less than 600kg as Microlight but it’s not as far as 2T on NPPL and no pax…
Jacko wrote:
On my reading of the French regulation and associated LAA explanation, Brits can fly their “permit-to-fly” (non-certified) aircraft in France for 28 days with any combination of licence and “medical” which is valid in UK airspace.
Well, it seems a bit contradictory – some parts are saying full ICAO (in which case an FAA PPL in an LAA permit machine would be OK) but then it says “issued by the state of registry” which would limit this only to UK issued PPLs, not all ICAO ones.
alioth wrote:
Jacko wrote: On my reading of the French regulation and associated LAA explanation, Brits can fly their “permit-to-fly” (non-certified) aircraft in France for 28 days with any combination of licence and “medical” which is valid in UK airspace.Well, it seems a bit contradictory – some parts are saying full ICAO (in which case an FAA PPL in an LAA permit machine would be OK) but then it says “issued by the state of registry” which would limit this only to UK issued PPLs, not all ICAO ones.
Just had a chat with someone and I think there is still a confusion.
So what is the current situation? Is it possible to fly a Permit-to-Fly UK aircraft in France on a Personal Medical Declaration (UK)?
Well, it seems a bit contradictory – some parts are saying full ICAO (in which case an FAA PPL in an LAA permit machine would be OK) but then it says “issued by the state of registry” which would limit this only to UK issued PPLs, not all ICAO ones.
No. It says “issued by the State of registry … or validated or recognised by that State.
Le pilote est titulaire d’un titre aéronautique et des qualifications associées permettant de voler sur cet aéronef, soit délivré par l’Etat d’immatriculation ou par un organisme ayant reçu délégation de cet Etat, soit validé ou reconnu par cet Etat.
The requirement is simply that the pilot must be entitled to fly the (amateur-built) aircraft in the State of registry’s airspace.
In that respect the official French text is perhaps clearer than the English “courtesy translation”.
I don’t think you need to rely on a courtesy translation LAA have published a leaflet TL 2.08.
There is also a CAP but I can’t recall the number.
You can fly to France on non-Part21 amateur built aircraft (likely on LAA PtF G-reg & day VFR) on PMD, the authorisation is max is 28 days and aeroplane need 15h TTF & 50 TNG
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/article_lc/LEGIARTI000036530429/2021-06-04
It’s not just PMD, you can fly amateur built vintage G-reg glider in France with BGA papers & driving DVLA group 1 standard (Annex A), for Part21 G-reg glider you need SPL/LAPL medicals and the BGA papers are worthless…
Not all LAA PtF aircraft are “amateur built”, I don’t have the exact list
