On the approach plates there is a minimum visibility/RVR quoted.
AFAIK this is the case only in France that has a separate “state minima”…I don’t know one single country nearby where VIS or RVR minima are published on AIP plates that apply to NCO private operators?
If you open the instrument plates for UK by CAA/NATS (or Germany by LBA/DFS), you will not see RVR or VIS published in AIP plates for IFR operations
I am not very well versed on this but my understanding private operators will uses published OCH to calculate DA and VIS/RVR using the formulas in NCO, sometimes the required visibility depends if doing CDFA or DnD, approvals, equipments
Jeppesen plates publish VIS/RVR under State minima and CAT minima, these are not the ones for private operators, however, they are better than nothing, serve as good proxy: I doubt ATC or NAA or courts will come after private pilot using them, as always in aviation “ignorance is bliss”…
As example: I believe CAA should talk to Jeppsen to add 50ft/PEC error to ILS plates, I think many airliners and private operators tend to fly Cat-I ILS down to 200ft DH & 550m RVR minima as per Jepps plates, surely, this means breaking UK rules on 50ft/PEC altimeter errors (radar altimeter is not used for Cat-I)
gallois wrote:
@Snoopy says no one would ever know.
I’m saying I have never heard of a default rule that ATC must report someone for continuing an approach if MIN RVR/vis is not met. Taking into account the complexities, e.g. mentioned by Airborne_again, I think they have bigger fish to fry. ATC may well report anything/anybody they desire…
@Ibra maybe I should visit NCOs again. I just remember for single pilot operation for an ILS approach one needs a minimum RVR of 800m or 550m in a coupled approach. Different RVR minima exist for non precision approaches.
These are published on the French SIA plates and in Jeppesen. I had noted that one has to calculate the minima yourself on the UK plates and I believe @Aeroplus produced a calculator to do this.
@Snoopy I agree that ATC normally have better things to do than reporting infringers, although @Peter has often written about ATC being duty bound to report certain infringements of airspace in the UK.
What I was referring to was that on my several visits taking groups of BIA students to control towers it is often explained that all movements and communications are recorded in one way or another and stored for a length of time.
My feeling is that in the case of an incident or accident these records could and would be referred to.
These are published on the French SIA plates and in Jeppesen. I had noted that one has to calculate the minima yourself on the UK plates and I believe Aeroplus produced a calculator to do this.
I have done for Belgium a month (I think private operators should always calculate visibility & altitude from AIP OCH, except in France where private operators have to use them from AIP plates)
Here is an example of raw OCH for Ostend in AIP plates, Jeppsen plates use CAT minima, their remark (1) is not applicable to private operators: you can legally hand fly this Cat-I LPV with 550m RVR (that remark on AP/FD/HUD is only guidance in NCO), to be more sensible let’s say you have Synthetic-Vision and very current…
Ibra wrote:
As example: I believe CAA should talk to Jeppsen to add 50ft/PEC error to ILS plates, I think many airliners and private operators tend to fly Cat-I ILS down to 200ft DH & 550m RVR minima as per Jepps plates, surely, this means breaking UK rules on 50ft/PEC altimeter errors (radar altimeter is not used for Cat-I)
Some aircraft don’t have to add 50ft/PEC error. The Diamond DA40 being one, it isn’t in the manual, so our minima are as per the plate.
If nothing in POH you will need to add 50ft: just pointing the rules, I never ever added 50ft/PEC except on IRT tests with UK IRE (who also insist on it in DA40 & DA42), the RVR is unchanged with 50ft/PEC, still some examiners insist on calculating a new one…
Anyway, flying Jeppsen plates does not reflect NCO minima
Also having RVR ban bellow 550m makes everyone life just easier (plenty of funky rules on RVR between 1500m-550m: CMV, PEC, HUD, NVG, AP, FD, HIALS…that likely no one understands or care about)
If nothing in POH you will need to add 50ft
That’s not correct; the 50ft is a UK (and possibly other country) FTO invention to improve their pass rates.
The rest, I have no further interest to argue. Minima are minima, and RVR applies to everyone flying to that airport (unless operating under different AOC rules, or military, etc).
When you arrive at an airport do you not state the approach you wish.
Normally you do, but there may be only one option.
That’s not correct; the 50ft is a UK (and possibly other country) FTO invention to improve their pass rates.
Sorry, the picture I posted above is UK AIP AD1.1-4.6.1 (not Bournemouth FTO mannual), it’s illegal to fly Cat-I ILS down to 200ft DH in UK without PEC according to CAA, this is real stuff !
Cat-I ILS RVR is unchanged from 550m though…
Peter wrote:
Minima are minima, and RVR applies to everyone flying to that airport (unless operating under different AOC rules, or military, etc).
Indeed, “RVR applies”, but what figure?
gallois wrote:
When you arrive at an airport do you not state the approach you wish.
I normally request a specific approach by its designated procedure name such as RNAV RWY 2 (RNP RWY 2), but not which line of minima i intend to use, LPV, LNAV/VNAV, LNAV or circling, so ATC does not care, at least in the US. Circle to land to a different runway only needs to be requested when making an approach to an airport with an operating tower.
