Yes, that is for sure true for Air Ops (NCO). But I am not sure about maintenance.
EASA FAQ:
“Does an approved training organisation (ATO) need to contract a maintenance organisation?
Point M.A.201 (i) applies to ATO holding an approval from the competent authority, as long as they deliver training as an activity with commercial purposes. In that case maintenance of the aircraft operated by the ATO shall be performed, as follows:
For large aircraft, maintenance shall be performed by part-145 organisations
For other than large aircraft, maintenance shall be performed by part-145 organisations or by part-M subpart-F organisations."
I’m not sure if I understand this English. Please tell me I’m wrong, but it looks like this will only change once ML is in force and that is apparently late summer 2017 and not 2016 as I hoped.
ArcticChiller wrote:
EASA FAQ:What this means is that a commercial ATO needs to contract a maintenance organisation, but a noncommercial ATO (e.g. an ATO associated with a non-profit club) does not. Indeed, a noncommercial ATO can have an owner-declared maintenance programme!
“Does an approved training organisation (ATO) need to contract a maintenance organisation?Point M.A.201 (i) applies to ATO holding an approval from the competent authority, as long as they deliver training as an activity with commercial purposes. In that case maintenance of the aircraft operated by the ATO shall be performed, as follows:
For large aircraft, maintenance shall be performed by part-145 organisations
For other than large aircraft, maintenance shall be performed by part-145 organisations or by part-M subpart-F organisations."I’m not sure if I understand this English. Please tell me I’m wrong, but it looks like this will only change once ML is in force and that is apparently late summer 2017 and not 2016 as I hoped.
How would you define an “ATO associated with a non-profit club”?
There is no such thing as a non-profit anything. If you make a loss continually, you eventually go bust. So you have to make a profit. The only factor is where that profit goes.
Also this opens up an opportunity for every such ATO to create a “club” arrangement. That may be a good thing, but probably unintended 
How is that going to work? An aircraft is safe or its not safe.
What happens when a club sells an aircraft to a school. Would they be able to use it?
What happens when a flying school makes a loss one year. Different maintenance schedule.
I thought easa regarded flight instruction as non commercial.
But then I really can’t understand half this stuff.
Peter wrote:
How would you define an “ATO associated with a non-profit club”?You’re playing with words. The concept of “non-profit” is well established.There is no such thing as a non-profit anything. If you make a loss continually, you eventually go bust. So you have to make a profit. The only factor is where that profit goes.
Also this opens up an opportunity for every such ATO to create a “club” arrangement. That may be a good thing, but probably unintended
I guess what you mean with a “club” is not the same thing that I mean.
When I talk about a “non-profit club” from my (Swedish) perspective, I am talking about a democratic association which is not owned by anyone, with membership open to anyone (in principle) and which has by-laws that state that it is non-profit and intended to promote air sports (or something similar). I’m sure the same thing exist in other countries — even in the UK. That’s at leat 99% of the club scene in Sweden and most of these clubs are also ATOs (or RF’s if they are still operating under old rules.)
How would you define an “ATO associated with a non-profit club”?
@Peter, in France it is defined as a “volunteers’ association governed by the law of July 1st, 1901”. All “aéroclubs” have this legal structure and most of them are ATO or allowed to perorm training like an ATO.
Opinion 5/2016 is very clear that Part ML will be applicable to any aircraft (in the stated physical limits) that is not listed in the AOC of an air carrier. So neither club-based nor commercial schools or other airwork companies (surveillance, pipeline control, banner towing, etc.) will have to stay on Part M but need to be maintained under Part ML (no option to choose here…), since they all don’t need an AOC.
Very interesting. I appreciate all that info. :)
The Part-ML Opinion (for aircraft up to 2730 kg not used by an air carrier) was discussed (an orientation discussion) at the EASA Committee on 30 June 2016. I don’t know what the plan is moving forward, but it might take two more meetings to get it through and then the usual 6 months before publication.
More limited changes for ELA1 aircraft are already in place via Commission Regulation (EU) 2015/1088 of 3 July 2015.
Peter wrote:
There is no such thing as a non-profit anything.
Really, Peter, sometimes your questions are bewildering. Countries usually have a concept of nonprofit or not for profit organisations. What it is precisely differs although the concept is similar. I don’t think it’s normally forbidden to be in black numbers, it’s perfectly normal to build a reserve, save up for a big investment, etc. But there will be restrictions on what you can do with the money and on the plus side there should be tax benefits on the income. And there might be more benefits in some countries, e.g. aeroclub can be considered a sporting organisation which can have additional benefits (subsidies, no VAT, etc.).
It think what matters is whether your local government considers you nonprofit or not. I doubt EASA wants or even can stick their fingers into that.
Peter wrote:
Also this opens up an opportunity for every such ATO to create a “club” arrangement. That may be a good thing, but probably unintended
If they can live with the restrictions. As all these benefits usually come with strings attached.
Bathman wrote:
What happens when a club sells an aircraft to a school. Would they be able to use it?
How is that different from a private individual selling an aircraft to a school in this case? They would have to bring it up to their maintenance program.
Bathman wrote:
What happens when a flying school makes a loss one year. Different maintenance schedule.
IMHO it doesn’t matter whether you make a profit or not. What matters is what kind of organisation it is.
