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Logbook irregularities

As mentioned previously on the forum, I’ve bought a British permit aircraft that turned out to have been very poorly maintained. As we’re working our way through fixing everything, we’re not only uncovering shoddy maintenance, but also paperwork irregularities. For example, there’s a propeller on the aircraft that is different from the one mentioned in the logbook, there are missing permit flight entries, and there’s an entry stating that the engine was run – but other members of its home airfield are adamant that it was mothballed in the back of a hangar, and believe the seller to have been abroad at the time.

I can’t currently prove that the engine wasn’t run, but I can prove that the propeller fitted at the time of sale didn’t match the one in the logbooks as there is a video of the seller talking through the aircraft. Given that logbooks are legal documents, this is clearly out of order. At best, sloppy and at worst an offence under the ANO?

I’ll admit that I’m peeved at the seller, whom I believe to have been dishonest on a number of counts, but I also wonder whether I ‘ought’ to report the irregularities – either because I have some legal duty to do so, or because I might be opening myself up to criticism at a future date if I have not done so – e.g. if the aircraft were to be involved in an accident and the insurers went through things with a fine toothcomb? And if I should report them, presumably this should be to someone at the CAA?

On the safety front, the aircraft has been substantially disassembled and large numbers of fittings replaced etc. etc… Not quite a rebuild, but a very major service. All of which will be documented assiduously.

Last Edited by kwlf at 16 Feb 05:46

I think upon reflection you’ll find a backwards looking legalistic approach isn’t going to be the slightest bit productive… for you. A regulator’s attention toward your property is precisely what you don’t need. I might go as far as to say it would be completely insane to ask for it. In the best case (which won’t be what you’ll get) your situation will be exactly the same in the end – you’ll have to ensure your plane is legal (yourself) before you fly it, but now with more attention from people likely having an axe to grind. Be careful what you ask for.

What I think you need to do now is concentrate on putting the aircraft into a legal configuration before you operate it, and fix the logs to show that you’ve done so. That’s all that matters, in both a practical and legal sense, other than assuring yourself it’s in a good condition to fly. If the current propeller is legal for the plane and it’s just a logbook problem, fix the logs by ‘installing’ the propeller now, a simple logbook entry. If LAA approval is needed for this propeller or whatever propeller you’re going to run, get it before updating the logs. Do the same for anything else that’s necessary. Do what’s necessary to make sure the engine is OK now, and run it to make sure, compete with logbook entry if required. Then test fly it when it’s right to do so, and document that too if needed. Who cares what was there before? Don’t look backwards.

I would be quite surprised when buying a 50 year old homebuilt microlight if it wasn’t in situation you’ve described. I’ve seen some of the same with certified planes I’ve bought. Your job is to fix all that stuff, move on and have fun.

PS if your actual intent is retribution against the seller, as opposed to making your plane safe and legal, I’d suggest waiting ten years and then slashing the tires on his car

Last Edited by Silvaire at 16 Feb 06:31

I agree with Silvaire on all counts except I wouldn’t bother with the tyres part because there are so many sh1tty people around that if you went slashing all their tyres you would not get much flying done

The majority of aircraft for sale have hidden defects known to the seller and known to the maintenance company (if applicable). But does that make the seller a sh1tty person? IMHO it does, but you get the same when buying a house or a car – people throw away normal behaviour guidelines because they believe they will never have to deal with you again (and occassionally, with houses, because their spouse, who never shook hands with the seller on the agreed deal, is trying to screw them into getting a “better deal”…. been there done that, got the t-shirt on that one).

The UK CAA will not be interested. A huge number of people have left recently and they are really struggling. And you don’t want to “become known” to them anyway. I have reported a certain well-known-crooked maintenance company to them (for probable use of parts with fake documentation, for which the people running the company have previous history of from a previous business!) and they were totally uninterested. The inspector even suggested that I go there for a cup of tea and smooth things out.

I am aware of a TB20 which was sold with a great deal of logbook inserts “not inserted”…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Thanks – I think by light of day that sounds like good advice. Slashing tyres has never really been my style anyway.

I still find myself considering the story of a distant relative got into a lot of bother after buying a restaurant whose previous owners were better at cooking books than food. Unfortunately the tax-inspectors arrived on her watch (at least, this is her version of the story).

What would be your approach then… Just lots of entries of the nature ‘No record found of the installation of the currently fitted propeller. Condition appears good and it is of an approved type for this aircraft’. And so on, so forth? Drawing a line.

Last Edited by kwlf at 17 Feb 03:52

Logbook entires don’t typically look backwards. For instance an appropriate entry for the propeller would be something along the lines of “installed used serviceable propeller xxx, test ran to verify static RPM within limits, signed and dated”. Whether it was trial fitted before the logbook entry is irrelevant, now it is installed.

You and/or your mechanics are taking responsibility for each currently undocumented installation, and assuming it’s an approved configuration or component that makes it legal before you fly it. That should be your only concern – don’t fly it until all items are safe and appropriately documented, but any operations by others before your ownership are not your problem.

(The above assumes that the plane is on something like a Permit to Fly, or C of A on N-register, and not EASA)

Last Edited by Silvaire at 17 Feb 04:38
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