Jan_Olieslagers wrote:
If there is no requirement to install any radio at all, how could installing a 25 kHz radio be illegal?
There is a EU regulation specifically prohibiting the installation of aircraft radios not capable of tuning 8.33kHz frequencies.
Peter wrote:
My comment about 8.33 FIS is just practical: there is an awful lot of simple planes, vintage planes, microlights, whatever, and a lot of these people don’t read pilot forums or aviation mags, and they will never change from 25kHz.
There are mandatory avionics checks in every EASA country. An aircraft with 25kHz radios will no longer be airworthy. It’s currently still unclear what happens in case there is more than one radio and not all are 8.33kHz capable. AOPA and others are on it, the way it looks now is that those would have to be removed/replaced but a compromise could be to label them as “121.5 emergency use only” or something. So I don’t expect a huge issue with aircraft not being 8.33kHz equipped past 2018.
Peter wrote:
All I am getting at is that I don’t think these fines can be internationally collected (special provisions have been made for motoring fines) because there is no framework for it. In aviation you have the method I described.
At some point your personal matrix of countries you can no longer go to would become quite complex and burdensome. And then your Easyjet does an emergency landing in Amsterdam on your way to your monthly binge drinking feast in Prague and they got you… Ignoring fines in foreign countries is not something that is very sustainable.
achimha wrote:
It’s currently still unclear what happens in case there is more than one radio and not all are 8.33kHz capable.
According to my Avionics-Guy it will be legal to operate a 25kHz radio on special frequencies, like 121.5 MHz., thus the COM/NAV does not need to be castrated. Plus listening to ATIS or monitoring other frequencies would be okay, I guess.
alioth wrote:
three times as much knob twisting.
Four times actually.
achimha wrote:
8.33kHz equipment carriage is the law for IFR already
Not everywhere. Not in Scandinavia, for instance.
Don’t forget that from the end of 2018 you will no longer be able to transmit with a 25kHz radio because even the “old” frequencies become 8.33kHz. If you tune the same (displayed) frequency with a 25kHz radio, there is a chance that a neighboring frequency that was previously part of the 25kHz channel was assigned for another purpose. You simply cannot know. This makes your extra radio a lot less useful, as @mh said — 121.5MHz and listening only.
Whether it will be legal is not clear yet so it’s just speculation.
After reading all this BS Ive come to the conclusion the Europeans need another war to unscramble their brains. This place is beyond help.
In case your wondering why Im so negative. I just had it out with Straubing airport control. They sent me a bill for an IFR fee for a Z plan. I have the proof I filed and flew the plan but their software system does not differentiates Z from a total and complete IFR departure. So since it only affects the rich who can afford to run their IFR planes through their companies, and taking deductions and food from the poor, they dont care about the charges. I think its just price gouging. But anyway getting back to why I was charged for an IFR departure on a Z plan. Because they said they have to open the flight plan for me. I told them that is not the case I filed with the computer and they had nothing to do with it. But they insisted they did since their computer program cant differentiate between Z or regular IFR. Since their computer program takes its information from Brussles and automatically charges for any IFR flight if it ends or originates with their airport. To this, I told them since the airport is only open when the "unicom or info is manned they should not even have a computer program to collect fees. Since they are sitting there they know which arrivals are truly IFR and which are not and ask for payment on landing or before they depart. Then they argued that they have expenses to maintain the IFR Rnav requirements 10,000 Euros a year. So their argument was that they activate flight plans. If you have to activate flight plans what about VFR flight plans any plane that leaves you airport with an VFR flight plan you have to activate dont you? So why are you not charging for them? “Well we cant” he answered . I said I insist, if you charge me for departing you airport VFR on a Z plan then you should charge everyone for a VFR departure. “Well maybe we should”. I also told them they are the only airport anywhere that charges for a part IFR flight plan Z or Y as an IFR arrival (if cancelled outside the IAF) or departure fee. Then I gave them the reasoning they should be happy Im coming to this airport and supporting their city which owns the airport by spending !0s of thousands of Euros a year. “You should pay me to land here and drop my money not aggravate me for 5 Euros.” I told them.
When it was all said and done they will look into how they can change their computer programs billing procedure and if it is legal for them to charge the way they do.
Personally I would like to see them charge for VFR departures. That should be exciting. Maybe I should explain to them how other airports are charging 150 Euros as a handling charge. Once they institute that they can close the airport.
achimha wrote:
Don’t forget that from the end of 2018 you will no longer be able to transmit with a 25kHz radio because even the “old” frequencies become 8.33kHz. If you tune the same (displayed) frequency with a 25kHz radio, there is a chance that a neighboring frequency that was previously part of the 25kHz channel was assigned for another purpose. You simply cannot know. This makes your extra radio a lot less useful, as @mh said — 121.5MHz and listening only.Whether it will be legal is not clear yet so
How would they know Im transmitting on my 2nd radio a Collins 350 Com? Right now it works on all the freq.
They would if you transmit on (and disturb) the neighbouring frequency.
achimha wrote:
Don’t forget that from the end of 2018 you will no longer be able to transmit with a 25kHz radio because even the “old” frequencies become 8.33kHz. If you tune the same (displayed) frequency with a 25kHz radio, there is a chance that a neighboring frequency that was previously part of the 25kHz channel was assigned for another purpose.
C210_Flyer wrote:
How would they know Im transmitting on my 2nd radio a Collins 350 Com? Right now it works on all the freq.
If you are receiving, they can’t. If you are transmitting, they can look at your emission spectrum. Not that they are very likely to, but it’s feasible.
