Ibra wrote:
arj1 wrote: how a customer can be sure that their plane is maintained to the right maintenance program?No need to see any documents, it’s easy to spot by looking from the outside and how regularly the aircraft flies divided by how many people fly it? I would blindly trust an owner who maintain his aircraft Part-ML outside CAMO and fly it himself 100h per year and I will jump inside without looking at anything, I would not get anywhere near an aircraft maintained in Part-145 org and flown 30h per year by 30 people ;)
Ibra, that did not answer my question: how as a customer I can be sure that an aircraft follows the right maintenance program?
Some customers would happily do all the things to design a maintenance program themselves, others would not touch it with a barge pole.
How?
arj1 wrote:
that did not answer my question: how as a customer I can be sure that an aircraft follows the right maintenance program?
I guess you have rented aircrafts at some point in the past, how did you get comfortable with maintenance? did you check any documentation?
The short answer is by renting from ATO with aircraft operated under Part-CAT and maintained in reputable PartM or Part145 organizations? I think that is the only guarantee a customer has that the aircraft follows the right maintenance programs… the same question how a pilot can be sure homebuilt follow the right flight path at high angle of attack? he always has the option to fly certified aircrafts
If SEP aircraft is operated under NCO, it’s de-facto Part-ML now, the only way to get comfortable is “CAMO+50h check” and you have that option, you also can go ahead and rent non-CAMO aircrafts (CAA CoFA, LAA PtF, FAA N-reg) and stretch it to “annual+100h only” if you feel lucky ;)
Well, I personally only rent aircraft, I’m not an owner.
Ibra wrote:
If SEP aircraft is operated under NCO, it’s de-facto Part-ML now, the only way to get comfortable is “CAMO+50h check” and you have that option, you also can go ahead and rent non-CAMO aircrafts (CAA CoFA, LAA PtF, FAA N-reg) and stretch it to “annual+100h only” if you feel lucky ;)
That is precisely the point I raised earlier. If an owner wants to be sure that an aircraft maintenance program is composed correctly, then CAMO is the only choice, right?
arj1 wrote:
That is precisely the point I raised earlier. If an owner wants to be sure that an aircraft maintenance program is composed correctly, then CAMO is the only choice, right?
No.
An owner can, as can a CAMO, also follow the maintenance program of the manufacturer (incl all SBs etc..).
Ibra wrote:
It’s how things are done in UK & EU, everything for hire goes to CAMO but it’s simply not how the US does it: if hiring an N-reg in the US under 14 CFR § 91.409 all you need is annual AND 100h checks
The planes I rent are
- CAMO on Manuf. MM
- CAMO with custom AMP (engine/prop on condition)
- Owner Declared AMP
- Owner Declared on Manuf. AMM
Renting an airplane to pilots isn’t CAT. It’s NCO, and ML applies, with all above variations possible at the discretion of the owner/operator.
Renting an airplane to pilots isn’t CAT. It’s NCO, and ML applies, with all above variations possible at the discretion of the owner/operator.
I’m lost.
Renting an airplane to pilots is not CAT, but all the question was to know if it was commercial.
I’m surprised you affirm it is NCO.
Imho it’s impossible to consider it as such and causing any other ops requirement other than NCO.
If it were considered a commercial activity NCO couldn’t be applied.
I’m sorry, maybe I didn’t get the meaning of this post right.
In other words, you said renting aircraft to pilot is NCO, right ?
PetitCessnaVoyageur wrote:
I’m surprised you affirm it is NCO.
Wait a minute…. part-NCO are operational rules. They have nothing to do with maintenance or ownership. If I own an aircraft and lend it to someone then the choice of ops rules – part-NCO, part-SPO or part-CAT – depend on how that pilot will use the aircraft.
Commercial Air Transport is something specific with requires a permit in the form of an Air Operator’s Certificate (AOC). All commercial ops are not CAT (they can be part-SPO) and you certainly don’t need an AOC to lend (or rent) an aircraft!
PetitCessnaVoyageur wrote:
you said renting aircraft to pilot is NCO, right ?
It’s like Airborne says. Renting itself constitutes neither AOC, CAT, NCO etc… theoretically. However, renting doesn’t mean a change of operator. And it’s the operator that defines what can be done with the plane. As the owner/operator of a SEP, I could rent it to other pilots and exclude any operation other than NCO.
If I interpret your question correctly, you mean if renting your plane requires any specific maintenance provisions.
No.
Renting a SEP to another pilot does not require a CAMO, the plane can be maintained acc. to an owner declared AMP.
