Hi there,
I understand it is technically possible to install boots on a C210 which did not have these off the factory. Commercially – anybody having an indication on how much money that would mean give or take? TKS installation costs somwhere between 40.000 and 45.000 USD as a reference.
Thanks :)
Hi. This has been discussed in the past a few times at CPA. Your approved data for the installation should be parts effectivity in the IPC. Have you verified your IPC? There are different systems depending on build year and options (single or timed activation, vertical stab booted or not, FIKI vs non-FIKI…) and some may have no applicable deicing system at all.
However, every time this was discussed the conclusion was that:
-Parts availability is scarce. You can buy the boots, but the valves, manifolds, timers, pitot etc are difficult and expensive to come by.
-If you do come by them in the used market then you will have to overhaul them.
-Total cost will be similar to or higher than a TKS install, although weight penalty will be less vs the full TKS tank..
I seem to recall one instance of a guy that did it and reported it on CPA years ago, but have not been able to find it.
Value-wise it is always better to buy an aircraft so-equipped.
Are you talking EASA or N-reg?
Hi Antonio, thanks for that! I was hoping for a kit but understand that is not necessary reality… EASA Registered… we want to get a T210R bit the one we have in mind has no Anti/De Icing however, the 210R are not cpvered under the TKS STC… so an unplasent situation really
AK210-160H will list all the parts required for a non-fiki four-boot 210 install, but it is not applicable to the R model.
But as I said you can use the IPC for reference and procure individual parts. It is a huge undertaking, though.
For all the handling advantages of the R model, you will be at a big disadvantage in terms of support vs N or M models due to its uniqueness.
Dear Community.
we have a Cessna T210R which has the option “Partrial Plumbing” installed ex factory for the installation of boots.
We bought the aircraft last year and would like to upgrade from “partial plumbing” to full FIKI installation – all other required options were installed ex factory already (see attached).
We talked to Cessna/Textron to find out whether there was a kit, etc. but the answer was not very helpful:
<<… Basically there are three possible ways to do this.
• An engineering order from the TC holder
• SN extension of the SB / kit
• New STC development
Unfortunately Textron Aviation is declining to participate in this request so the first two options are closed. That would leave the last option which is probably very expensive and requires flight testing. >>
Despite the fact that I find this answer unsatisfying to say the least – it to me does not make any sense to even offer this option if there was no way to make use of it. Has anybody here any experience with this option? I found that option also for C340 and there is a kit available but couldn’t find anything for my bird.
Thanks a lot and best wishes, Hanno WBEQ_21064969_pdf
I am by far not a certification expert, but from my understanding there should be no need for a supplemental type certificate in your case because, if I understood your situation correctly, the full de-ice would have been available from the factory for your plane. If that is correct, the system is already included in the original type certificate.
As long as you use the original parts and install them as the factory would have done, according to the original drawings and specifications, you should be fine. We had external power receptacles retrofitted to some C172s on the same grounds. Granted, a de-ice system is more complicated to install, but with my limited knowledge I do not see a fundamental difference. Others on the forum will know for sure.
Sourcing of the correct p/ns could be difficult, though.
Edited for autocorrect errors.
I would pay one of the top Cessna experts in the world his shop rate to sit with my scanned records and sort it out…. getting an STC is not a low cost undertaking.
That’s just me.
First of all congratulations: you have all the unique SEP-world-leading capabilities of a Cessna 210 at 200KTS cruise and long-range, heavy payload capabilities, but none of the truck-like handling treats of lesser 210 versions! Truly the king of SEP’s !
Well, you are not saying if this is N-reg, EASA reg or otherwise. The path is slightly different either way.
In all cases you will need approved data. As a 1970’s Cessna owner you are very lucky since all the data is available free of charge if you register online. You might have to pay tens of thousands for this data otherwise. Let me ellaborate:
You can use the IPC as approved data for the installation since it lists some deice/anti-ice options.
You can also use Cessna Accessory Kit (AK) pubs with a detailed listing of required parts as well as install instructions.
In your case, and assuming you have zero deice equipment, the steps required would be:
a) Install wing and horizontal tail boots using Parts Catalogue and SM (not free) as approved data
b) Install electric propeller anti-ice using AK210-179. The kit is not available at Cessna unless you are willing to pay high double-digit AMU’s and wait eons, but all individual parts should be available from your usual sources, some from Cessna.
c) Install deice light using AK210-163A. Same as the other AK.
d) And the critical one: install AK210-162K which will tell you all you need to convert your non-FIKI deiced T210R with propeller antiice and wing and horiz tail deice into a FIKI T210R:
It will even include instructions for panel placards with the FIKI approval.
Now you are not saying but it is also important to know whether you just want the equipment or also the legal “dispatch into ice capability”.
Under EASA reg there is no such thing as FIKI. You either have an icing conditions limitation on your AFM/POH or you don’t.
Under FAA there is a specific certification beyond the installation of equipment, and the only way to get the approval is using one of the previously approved designs, like the one I am referring above (that is unless you are willing to spend triple-digit AMU’s on certification)
The good news is the Cessna POH you already have most likely already includes the FIKi supplement, it is just not approved for you…unless you install the equipment per the above approved data.
You do NOT need separate approval since all of the above is type-certificate approved data (ie publications based on TC drawings) , all the way to the panel placards.
I however would discuss my plans with my ARC inspector (EASA) or IA (FAA) in advance to ensure they are comfortable with the idea.
Having said that, the cost of all that equipment is easily going to be around the 50 AMU mark or well above if you buy new from Cessna, and will involve significant labour, perhaps less so with your pre-installed plumbing.
Also, do not underestimate the parts sourcing effort required for a project like this.
You do not have TKS option available on your R model, so this is really your only practical full de-ice option.
Typically, it will be cheaper to source an aircraft with the equipment already installed.
Does it not also require a heated/anti Ice stall warner?
BTW I am not surprised Textron answered in that way…most young Cessna support engineers do not even know these 1970’s publications are out there…but dont be misled, whether they know it or not, all of the above references are TC-approved data.
If you ask them very specifically you will get good answers. I would however refrain from asking unless you know exactly what you are asking. Otherwise the answers you get might set the wrong precedent for you. I suggest you get knowledgeable advise if you elect to go that route.
OEM-Q&A’s are a double-edged sword when you want to use them for regulatory approval: you need to pose the question guiding the answer to where you want it : ie you need to know the answer before you ask the question.
