Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Looking for answers to problems you don't have.

In Croatia all flights are controlled hence your previous sentence on precision applies both for IFR and VFR.

I didn’t talk about any country in particular, but about the principle.

Alos, do they control flights even in class G, i.e. below 800 (IIRC) feet?

Last Edited by boscomantico at 26 May 16:17
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Disagree.

History doesn’t have good accident statistics – the future will.

It reminds me another question, should pilots learn the ‘basics’ of IFR flight on an old C172 rather than ‘easy’ glass. I totally disagree, once all the old planes retire, the new pilots will know of them only though history books – yet, this generation will still crash less often.

Back to the point, progress & new tools generally help rather than hinder as long as you can still learn to use it.

To end my thread I will concede that an autopilot would be nice,but unfortunately I fly a group owned aircraft and the bulk of the membership don’t see the need for such frippery.
Just like the EU everybody has to agree.

Propman
Nuthampstead , United Kingdom

If your 2hr leg doesn’t have a weather problem, you don’t need to fly IFR, hence no need for a: an autopilot. Period. I don’t see where the CAS bit and co-pilot are a factor, here.

Perhaps selectively quoting here… however for me, almost regardless of length of trip, if I can file and fly IFR then I will do so. It’s so much less hassle to fly IFR than VFR, particularly across Europe!

EGKB

I’m reminded of The Full Circle

Agree.
Flew lots around Europe and down to southern Italy , all VFR. The aircraft was equipped with an A.P (wing leveller) that I have hardly used, it was much more fun to hand flying. No glass other than a Garmin 430 and EDM700. I always used the VORs and NDBs as well as the lines on the map and the flight plan on my knee. A friend flew a C172 from N.Y via the Azores to Israel with hand held GPS and standard instruments and radios.
We all start to fly because we enjoy it. Then, we need to have this and that and at the end we end with all the toys so we can fly to our holiday in Spain at FL120. Cheaper and less pain with Eazyjet. When I fly I want to enjoy it, I want to see the ground features, I want to see the cities and towns below, not the clouds at 9000’. Just my 2p.

I would agree with you, Ben, if it wasn’t for CAS, ATC and all the other “modern” stuff.

If one reads the books written by the old aviation pioneers, 1920s, 1930s, their biggest challenge was whether the engine would make the journey without falling apart. And then massive tiredness, on some very long solo flights. And presumably commercial sponsorship – just like on today’s epic journeys

If they force landed in the middle of Africa, the locals would laugh at these crazy people with funny hats and give them some food, and possibly arrange some R&R which in those days would be fairly safe Today, there is a fair chance you would just be shot (if you are lucky, before they do some other stuff).

Today we have loads of airspace regulation which drives people to do the IR – just so they can pop into a bit of cloud and fly in sunshine without any problems. If there was none of this, I too would fly to Spain at 500-1000ft.

I have done so many 20hr IFR trips on which I logged zero instrument time. Or maybe 10 mins. Europe is crazy.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

When I fly I want to enjoy it, I want to see the ground features, I want to see the cities and towns below, not the clouds at 9000’

That’s not really the point. From when I started flying with modern avionics and a reliable autopilot, I started enjoying the landscape, now I have the time for doing pictures. Also: once you have hand flown airplanes for 1000 hours straight and level the fascination degrades somewhat. After having flown a big part of Europe in 20 years I started to enjoy learning modern avionics and flying IFR. Who says you can’t “enjoy” an IFR flight? I certainly do. Flying IFR does not necessarily mean flying above or even inside the clouds. Also, for some people (and i belong to that group) it’s pure fun to learn the many features of modern avionics, IFR procedures, approaches. While it’s not as “romantic” as flying an open biplane with a white scarf, it certainly is challenging and interesting.

Another side of this is that when you start using the airplane for serious traveling, the hand flying aspect of it becomes less important. More than 50 percent of my motivation is the destination and not the flight. And on many days i can reach my destination IFR – and would stay at home VFR.

Peter
I know what you are saying but either I was very lucky or very well pre-paired. I can’t remember being refused CAS crossing in France, Germany, Holland and Italy. In Italy flying from Florence (Firenze) to Luca demanded to fly large number of VRP, ATC instructed me to a direct, when I reply that I head to the VRP the guy came back and told me to fly direct. Even flying the low rout around Marseilles was fun as well as flying the A1 airway (in Italy) at 500 or 1000’, cant remember. In the vast majority of cases I found ATC very helpful , e.g. ATC at Tours held an airliner on the runway so I can clear safely and Brussels Info asked me to stay at 4500’ during CAS crossing. Yes, I did have to plan and work harder on my navigation (upsetting Frankfurt ATC on my way to Egelesbach) but as a whole it was a challenge with great satisfaction at the end of the trip

“If one reads the books written by the old aviation pioneers, 1920s, 1930s, their biggest challenge was whether the engine would make the journey without falling apart.”

And that hasn’t changed!

Sign in to add your message

Back to Top