I am hoping to lure some experienced Italian aircraft owners and those who have visited to help with some wisdom.
After 12 years of being based in England and flying back and forth to many corners of Europe (Cyprus, Hungary, Spain, Germany, France, Greek Islands etc), and before that 10 years flying from Switzerland, Therese and I are working on a plan to relocate to Italy for a year or two.
The dream, take the plane (a PA46 Jetprop) for a sabbatical to Tuscany, or nearby, and become a ‘local pilot’ for a year or more. We are very serious about this and will make it happen, this is not a casual enquiry. But the whole ‘local aviation’ scene in Italy is a complete mystery to me. In the past we have only made in and out flying holiday visits – to Roma Urbe, and to Bologna and Venice Lido, not immersed ourselves like a local.
So the big question of course is where to base the aircraft and find hangarage!! I can operate off a tarmac runway of about 650+ m or a a good quality grass runway of about 700+ m.
From my researches and experience so far this is what I can see, and my questions:
This is all a complete mystery to me and I would really appreciate the wisdom of Euroga.
Mille grazie!
Buckerfan wrote:
The dream, take the plane (a PA46 Jetprop) for a sabbatical to Tuscany, or nearby, and become a ‘local pilot’ for a year or more.
@Buckerfan, what about VAT for the a/c and licensing for the pilot?
If it is “for a year or more”, then you would become resident, AFAIK. If that is correct, then you’d need to at least have an EASA license (even if you could sort out the VAT question, big IF).
arj1 wrote:
arj101-Dec-23 19:3802
Buckerfan wrote:
The dream, take the plane (a PA46 Jetprop) for a sabbatical to Tuscany, or nearby, and become a ‘local pilot’ for a year or more.
@Buckerfan, what about VAT for the a/c and licensing for the pilot?
If it is “for a year or more”, then you would become resident, AFAIK. If that is correct, then you’d need to at least have an EASA license (even if you could sort out the VAT question, big IF).
Residency is not purely dependent on the time u spend in a country. If his general habitual and financial life is somewhere else, it´s not purely related to spending a year or two, at least not as a general rule. I have a feeling that buckerfan probably are on top of this crap! As far as importation, good question.. What reg. is the aircraft.. Not EASA?
Yeager wrote:
What reg. is the aircraft.. Not EASA?
The aircraft is N reg N380KC. I have FAA and CAA PPL with IR. The CAA PPL IR was a conversion from an EASA one, so I assume not hard to get my hands on the EASA version.
But no thread drift please. What I really want to do is start a big fun conversation about flying based in Italy. Many of us non-Italians have flown there occasionally, and moaned about the difficulty and expense of the bigger airports. But what I want to hear about is how Italian locals do their flying. After 12 years in the UK I now understand which big UK airports are out of the question, which smaller UK city airports are useful and accessible, and which grass fields are useable and friendly. But I have no idea how it works for Italian pilots in Italy.
Andiamo!
In the 2000s, I spent 7 years of my life in Italy, and during that time, I fully „immersed“ into the Italian flying world. Happy to help you with your project (can do Teams or so, but also meet in person).
The Italian flying community is basically threefold: a huge group of ultralight pilots, a small group of „aeroclub pilots“, flying 50 year old spamcans around the local area, and a tiny group of owners of certified aircraft.
Anyway, start learning Italian TODAY.
Re location, I would still first decide whereabouts I would like to stay, and then look at airfield options. Tuscany is big, and roads can be slow, so mind your distances.
Grosseto has a small local aeroclub, and allows some limited bizjet traffic. I very much doubt it could be a viable option for you.
Re 5, I have been to ALL the airfields you mention. Some of its runways will not be suitable your Jetprop. Others will be (remember those grass runways will not get as soft as UK grass airfields). While many of these fields do have some hangarage, it is usually made for ultralights and will not fit a PA46. Most of these fields will also not have refuelling facilities for jetfuel. Apart from these downsides, yes, you will want to be based at an aviosuperficie, due to their relaxed rules, access, usability. Aeroporti tend to be very formal and have lots of restrictions (firefighting still required, despite the legal changes on an ICAO level). This is a concern for aviosuperfici.
Re 6, yes, they do exist. For example, the mentioned Montecchio (briefly featured here) might indeed be an option for you.
I lived there, but in halcyon times, based in Linate with ridiculous low parking and airport charges. Avioportolano.it might have useful data. I do speak Italian, and while it helps, the Italians are very welcoming to foreign visitors. I didn’t encounter any parochialism. Requesting start up at Linate in Italian usually got you to jump the queue on the visiting Speedbirds. Expect to be vectored straight onto the GS in rush hour, even if turbine, I think only CAT get treated kindly.
Nuccio Caristia posts on the forum and is probably a very good source of local knowledge. A colleague is the CFI at Como and may have relevant contacts in Tuscany. Also have a colleague in Turin who is a GA pilot in a 182.
You will need to find a reliable maintenance shop even if you plan to keep your main maintenance in the UK.
Anyway, start learning Italian TODAY.
Bosco hits the nail here. I spent 5+ years flying outta MXP, and pro flying aside, the ability to even converse in the language opens many a door, otherwise closed.
Forget the dialects, of which there are many, but basic Italian will be a big help, if only in demonstrating your interest to integrate.
boscomantico wrote:
In the 2000s, I spent 7 years of my life in Italy,
Wow, your post was so helpful. Thank you, thank you! And the link to your trip in 2014 even more so. It gave me a real feel for the informal strips in Tuscany. I am going to study it more carefully tomorrow.
Dan wrote:
Bosco hits the nail here. I spent 5+ years flying outta MXP, and pro flying aside, the ability to even converse in the language opens many a door, otherwise closed.
+1 for the language ! I lived in Milan for year in the late 90s and speak pretty fluent Italian – I wouldn’t have been able to shepherd my project at the time to fruition without it. Also, and perhaps more importantly, it opens so many doors to social life !!
As you say Perugia has a big runway and ILS, and is open till late and at night (a favorite landing place for atpl schools from Rome). Sometimes hangar space there is available: I can provide the right contact if interested. Also for housing nearby.
I’ve been to most Toscana airports/aviosuperfici but I don’t know about hangar spaces. I have good contacts who may know, but you should first decide the area you prefer (it is a large region).
If you go for grass aviosuperfici/airports your choice triples, especially for hangar space (I have contacts there too), but you would sacrifice half of the jetprop capabilities in my opinion.
