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Is it ever too cold aloft / what to expect from the cabin heater?

Mirage turbocharged injected engines routinely operate to -30-40C. At that temp main challenge is fuel icing risks but that is more related to the fuel rather than engine itself.

EGTK Oxford

Thanks all. Fascinating stuff. Makes -15C sound a balmy Summer’s day…

jgmusic
North Weald, United Kingdom

I have seen -37C in flight (FL195 near Norwich, UK).

Avgas freezes around -59C but there are possible fuel system issues such as this which happen at much warmer temps since they don’t involve the fuel actually freezing. Avtur freezes at something like -45C (google BA038 and the accident report, for a classic treatment of the subject) but jets benefit from aerodynamic heating of the fuel tanks so they can fly even at -85C OAT although they need to avoid long low power descents afterwards.

The heater is another topic A properly set up TB20 one will be ok down to maybe -30C at night, and easily so in daytime (I was wearing shorts on that -37C flight). Some other types are not as good though.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Jet-A freezes at a maximum of -40 and Jet-A1 (used in Europe) at -47 but the bigger problem is water precipitating out of the fuel and blocking filters.

Many jets have oil-fuel heat exchangers (as does mine) so the issue doesn’t arise.

EGTK Oxford

Peter wrote:

there are possible fuel system issues such as this which happen at much warmer temps

Wow, that’s a pretty sobering report (especially as I fly the same type). So ice in the fuel servo is a real problem, and no-one (or very few) knew about using alternate air as a solution, not least the manufacturers?

jgmusic
North Weald, United Kingdom

The POH says use alternate air in all icing conditions, but you get two factors:

  • most people think, not without reason, that in -15C you won’t get icing
  • alternate air kills your climb rate; your ceiling drops by maybe 3000ft, so often you need to do the climb in VMC – or use prop TKS but that works only on types where the fluid enters the fuel servo duct; on say an SR22 it doesn’t
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
The POH says use alternate air in all icing conditions

Understood and duly noted for future ref And yet the report says: “…the Operation Manual (OM) of the PA-28-R200 does not provide instructions for the preventive use of alternate air to avert ice formation in the fuel injector in icing conditions.” A semantic spitting of hairs then perhaps.

jgmusic
North Weald, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Some other types are not as good though.

In DA42 it’s hard to stand -20 – the engines simply don’t provide enough heating and insulation is practically non-existing, especially when compared to TB20.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

I have a thick woollen jumper, which is so warm it can’t be worn on ‘normal’ winter days. Same applies for a fur hat.

An Irvin-type lambskin flying jacket would keep you really warm but unless you have an open cockpit biplane you’ll just look silly

I once got up very early on a sunny January morning and it was only M05 but I the perspex kept fogging up, inside and out, and even warming the engine for ages the exhaust-exchange cabin heat was useless.

EGHO-LFQF-KCLW, United Kingdom

I wonder if Stephan ever solved that problem. I would expect an SR22 (modern type) to be pretty good.

As regards clothing, it’s funny how things have changed over the years. I used to have a ton of woolen pullovers, leather jackets with warm lining, etc. All that stuff went to the charity shops about 15 years ago… I find that modern fleeces are vastly better – as warm as anything else but much more breathable. The drawback is that I look scruffy, but I don’t care

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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