I’m sure this has is a much discussed topic but.. is there any point going through the CBIR route when you are intent on doing the full IR (rather than just IMC) ?
Basically I started out some IMC lessons and I quickly realised that I actually wanted a full IR not least because of the catalogue of limitations with IMC, my desire to fly in Europe (who would want to take their plane out VFR and risk being stuck in France!), and my worry that flying IFR without being very current and proficient can actually be very dangerous.
But, the whole world is still advising me to do an IMC first and go through the CBIR course… FWIW I’m almost done with module 1 of the IR theory. Might as well get the exams done either way!
Any thoughts? Is it a waste of time to do CBIR?
CBIR is the EASA/ICAO IR, with the only difference being that the former uses 7 exams which are a “slightly reduced subset” of the old 7 JAA IR exams, while the latter uses, wait for it, 7 exams which are a “slightly less reduced subset” of the old 7 JAA IR exams 
What is the difference between the “slightly reduced subset” and the “slightly less reduced subset”? The latter gives you some credit towards the HPA theory (relevant for say a TBM, Jetprop, PC12 etc) and relevant in Europe due to the Brussels requirement for EASA papers even if the aircraft is N-reg (and there is no FAA HPA as such).
So the “EASA IR” is a practically useless route.
HOWEVER if you want to be an airline or corporate jet pilot one day, then you need to do the full “ATPL” exams, 13 of them. And these will cover the PPL, CPL, IR so when you are done with all that and have your CPL/ME/IR (what the €100k schools call “frozen ATPL” to make you feel better, but it isn’t an ATPL since Europe has no “ATPL course”; your CPL/ME/IR is converted to an ATPL after your bum has been warming an airliner RHS for 500hrs). It makes no difference how you did our IR in this route so long as you sit those 13 exams.
Also see e.g. this. You are doing the Modular route, so long as you sit the 13 “ATPL” exams. If you are not doing them, you will end up with at most a “private PPL/IR” and even if you do a CPL/IR it will never get you a job.
You may have been fed some BS terminology by some school. For a private pilot, the CBIR is all you need. It is a full ICAO IR.
Rami1988 wrote:
But, the whole world is still advising me to do an IMC first and go through the CBIR course… FWIW I’m almost done with module 1 of the IR theory. Might as well get the exams done either way!
AFAIK most are advised to do the IMC first, gain experience and then 10hrs at the ATO for the CBIR course – that is the cheapest one and most convenient in the UK.
Thanks for the explanation Peter. Apologies for not being clear on the question – what I’m trying to decide is whether I should do a full IR course up front (no IMC) or do an IMC course which I can ‘upgrade’ to a full IR with the CBIR route. Factors I’m thinking about is time to completion, proficiency, and flexibility to be able to obtain other licenses (I.e. FAA or EASA. At the moment I’m part-fcl).
FWIW I don’t think I’ll ever do an ATPL, and I’m currently doing the Bristol ground school IR course. Aviation is purely an expensive hobby for the foreseeable future! Given I’m already 35, even if I change my mind in the future, it will be too late :)
The key deciding factors are how quickly you want the rating, your learning style and your availability for training.
‘Full’ IR course is basically best suited to intensive training, lots of sim usage, and you will be following a very set training programme designed to meet a test standard outcome.
If you want to build experience, do more practical based training (say including some landaway trips) and fit training in around other life events then the CBIR is ideal. You can also stop/start stuff if life or motivation demands it. Downside is that you can spend more time/cost over the whole lifecycle if you do not get to test standard in ok timescales.
The IMCR is a 2 year revalidation. This can be extremely helpful as a back-up rating, for many reasons. Plus revalidation can be completed in an easier way as there are significantly more available instructors to use. Yearly revalidations for the IR do come around quickly when life gets in the way.
IME, a big factor is whether there is an IR-capable school close enough to not need a hotel.
I did my IR in 2011 at EGKA during a rare opportunity which closed a few months later. The local FTO (FTA, gone bust recently) was a pure sausage machine and anyway would not touch a customer with his aircraft. Next was an outfit at Bournemouth – undriveable, unflyable (you can’t train having flown somewhere – will be too tired) and with some weird practices which I refer to in the above link.
Whereas, like a US PPL doing his FAA IR, you can do the IMCR at your local PPL outfit. Then you can log hours towards the CBIR credits – both training hours (if the instructor is an IR-qualified one!) and “IFR as PIC” hours.
You must of popped into my local ATO. They don’t offer the CBIR. As according to them it’s not a proper IR and is inferior.
In reality they want you to write a cheque out for 55 hours and when you have a 104 mile trip to the next closest ATO your choices are limited.
Shame the CAA doesn’t allow you to just ‘hire’ an instructor to teach you a course on your plane at your convenient location. It has to be sponsored by an ATO. I wonder what is the point of this extra red tape?
Rami1988 wrote:
Shame the CAA doesn’t allow you to just ‘hire’ an instructor to teach you a course on your plane at your convenient location. It has to be sponsored by an ATO. I wonder what is the point of this extra red tape?
You can for CBIR, and have just 10hrs at ATO (a good instructor will also advise on a right ATO).
