1) Correct, but do not expect access to any Class A airspace (whether ‘airways’ or TMA/CTA) unless you have an IFR flightplan.
2) Yes. IFR in the UK outside controlled airspace is purely a state of mind, but of course if you’re working an ATSU then you need to tell them otherwise it’s meaningless. They will treat you with subtle differences to VFR traffic, but nothing that makes an enormous difference.
3) I don’t think ATC concern themselves with how you navigate and normally we don’t discuss our navigational capabilities with them, so I wouldn’t mention this unless you actually need something. There is nothing to stop you telling them that you don’t have GPS and asking for a heading to fly for a certain waypoint – if they are not too busy they will probably help, assuming you are under at least a Traffic Service.
4) When IFR (or VFR) outside controlled airspace your routing is your own concern. ATC won’t do it for you or assign you a route, but as above they might help any way they can if you ask.
5) To my mind a Traffic Service is the minimum worth asking for, whether IMC or not. A Basic Service is largely useless and you may as well just listen out. One could actually argue a Traffic Service is more important in VMC, given how much less likely you are to have conflicting traffic in IMC.
TwinPiston wrote:
3) ATC should be made aware (over the R/T) that I do not have GPS and cannot do “own navigation” to any IFR waypoints (despite having SD or Foreflight onboard?)
They won’t give you any instructions if you are OCAS and not trying an IAP for a specific airfield.
TwinPiston wrote:
5) request traffic service if possible when IMC
Deconfliction would work better, I think.
I’m puzzled, so it’s legal in the UK to fly ’’IFR’’ without establishing 2 way communication or having a FPL on file that has the routing (even if DCT)? How that works from a traffic separation perspective (let’s say in Class E where IFR and IFR are separated) or for access to class C/D etc is beyond me… No access to Class A as Graham mentions seems logical to me, but the rest?
So I get how one can take off in class G – which is technically uncontrolled – but with a flightplan, without that it’s a gamble really isn’t it when joining anything more restricted than class G?
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
I’m puzzled, so it’s legal in the UK to fly ’’IFR’’ without establishing 2 way communication or having a FPL on file that has the routing (even if DCT)?
Yes, perfectly legal. You can take off ‘IFR’ from an airport outside CAS, no radio comms and no flight plan, then 10 minutes later you can decide “I am VFR”, then after another 7 minutes you can decide “I’m IFR again” and make that change as often as you like, landing IFR or VFR and without telling anyone at all.
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
How that works from a traffic separation perspective (let’s say in Class E where IFR and IFR are separated) or for access to class C/D etc is beyond me…
Big Sky Theory prevails in Class G. The UK has hardly any Class E airspace, no Class F, and Class C is only above some (hardly applicable to GA) alititude like 20k feet or something. To enter Class D IFR you need ATC clearance and they will separate you as required.
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
So I get how one can take off in class G – which is technically uncontrolled – but with a flightplan, without that it’s a gamble really isn’t it when joining anything more restricted than class G?
Yes – anything involving CAS will be a gamble in terms of whether you can gain access. An IFR flight plan will only really help if much of the route is decisively in Class A, otherwise the UK ATC system just bins it on a “not our customer” basis. Filing an IFR flight plan for a mostly-OCAS route that perhaps penetrates a Class D control zone may help a little in that the ATSU might have your details (if the flight plan was properly addressed), but there are no guarantees of any transit. You are still essentially an ‘itinerant GA beggar’ when you pitch up asking to go through and if they are busy (or generally exclude transiting traffic as a matter of local policy, e.g. Bristol) then you’ll just be told to remain outside and you’ll be on your own. The chances of ad-hoc entry into Class A without being on an IFR flight plan are so slim as to make it hardly worth trying.
Graham wrote:
Yes – anything involving CAS will be a gamble in terms of whether you can gain access. An IFR flight plan will only really help if much of the route is decisively in Class A, otherwise the UK ATC system just bins it on a “not our customer” basis. Filing an IFR flight plan for a mostly-OCAS route that perhaps penetrates a Class D control zone may help a little in that the ATSU might have your details (if the flight plan was properly addressed), but there are no guarantees of any transit. You are still essentially an ‘itinerant GA beggar’ when you pitch up asking to go through and if they are busy (or generally exclude transiting traffic as a matter of local policy, e.g. Bristol) then you’ll just be told to remain outside and you’ll be on your own. The chances of ad-hoc entry into Class A without being on an IFR flight plan are so slim as to make it hardly worth trying.
I find this a really interesting case actually, let’s say you were on a certain day in July to file a valid route (Eurocontrol validated plan from EBAW to EGNE). You were to file this route as it would keep you clear of the worst weather, with a take off in controlled airspace (EBAW) and a route and altitude that would keep you in controlled airspace.
Purely hypothetical of course ;-) – let’s say ATC (on the UK side) where to divert you from your route for operational reasons. The route you were given would put you in some icing conditions and you were unable to climb to lets say FL140 and you were told you needed to either climb or continue ‘’on your own’’ outside of CAS and would need to cancel IFR? What would you do? I know what I did would do…—
Anytime you drop bellow UK CAS with no further handover or frequency (“radar service terminated, free call enroute/London info”), you can fly as you which IFR (or VFR/IFR) not talking to anyone but further access to CAS has to be re-negotiated, the flight plan will always stay active until you land or close it but your IFR clearance is limited to CAS
UK ATC will not “cancel your IFR” nor say “clearance limit is controlled airspace boundary” but you have to understand to to join the next bit of airspace you need further “airspace clearance”
To help you grasp things, ATC know you have the option to cancel IFR in your head while flying IFR OCAS not talking to anyone, so before you rejoin airspace again they need to check if you are IFR or VFR, the hardest bit is knowing your next frequency 
If you leave CAS laterally or by descent for “weather reasons” before resuming your route you usually stay on radar deconfliction or traffic services even in Golf as long as you are above radar altitudes, if you leave CAS by descent to land or to cruise you will be told to freecall enroute…
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
What would you do?
What I would do is very hypothetical because I don’t have an IR and have never done such a flight. It comes only from my understanding of the system and the experiences of others.
I would probably make it quite clear to ATC that I considered none of their suggestions (fly into icing / at an altitude I can’t reach / leave CAS and stop being their problem) acceptable and that I expected them to do whatever they needed to do to integrate my flight with their ‘operational reasons’. If they refused to accommodate and directed me out of CAS against my wishes then I would comply but probably MOR them afterwards. I could probably manage to complete the flight without incident because I know the south-east UK OCAS and ATSOCAS environment well, but for someone who doesn’t this would be a real headache. If they were totally not expecting it and had little knowledge of the UK OCAS environment or the hot-potch of variable-quality ATSOCAS available in different locations, then it would be outright dangerous in terms of the risk of serious airspace infringements.
There are perhaps some relevant semantics in their use of the words ‘cancel IFR’ when you leave CAS and continue on your own. Under the UK system you do not necessarily lose IFR status – you can continue IFR or VFR OCAS as you wish – but what you lose is your whole-route IFR clearance within the system. As far as the IFR ATC system is concerned, your flight is ‘finished apart from the landing’ – i.e. you have left controlled airspace for the last time and will not be re-entering as part of any ongoing plan. If you do re-enter, it will have to be separately negotiated by you in a radio call that the relevant ATSU will not necessarily be expecting.
If threatened with being ‘dumped’ with quite a long way still to run to destination, it could be worth playing the ‘foreign pilot’ card – i.e. tell them that you were expecting airways IFR all the way and are totally ill-equipped for ad-hoc uncontrolled flight outside CAS, you don’t have VFR charts, frequencies, you don’t know who to call, etc. As a very last resort you might hint that if they cannot discharge their duty to you then you will have to just assume lost comms and fly the route as filed, or something else like DCT destination at FL070. That would get their attention.
TwinPiston wrote:
3) ATC should be made aware (over the R/T) that I do not have GPS and cannot do “own navigation” to any IFR waypoints (despite having SD or Foreflight onboard?)
I wouldn’t be too concerned about telling them. Presumably you will have given them your desired routing (either by FPL or in your initial call) and it will be VOR to VOR. If they decide to give you direct to some RNAV waypoint, then at that time you could tell them ‘unable RNAV due equipment’ or whatever.
In practice, that is not the case though. Working VORs have become so rare, it is not possible to create any sensible routing from VOR to VOR anymore. And nobody wants to do that anyway.
Additionally, there is the very complex airspace structure in England. No way to navigate all these narrow corridors of uncontrolled airspace using VOR radials. That is simply times gone by.
In practice, everybody flies just like VFR, i.e. with an ipad and a pre-programmed route using several user-created waypoints. Nobody takes any interest in that. The notion that just because you are IFR you need to use some “IFR approved” navigation means is absurd when OCAS.
Again, when you are OCAS, nobody takes any interest in you anyway.
Ibra wrote:
Anytime you drop bellow UK CAS with no further handover or frequency (“radar service terminated, free call enroute/London info”), you can fly as you which IFR (or VFR/IFR) not talking to anyone but further access to CAS has to be re-negotiated, the flight plan will always stay active until you land or close it but your IFR clearance is limited to CAS
@Graham is right, when I am being put on vectors for ‘’operational reasons’’ most likely traffic avoidance and that takes me outside of CAS – am I supposed to know that? I guess the answer is no. When I am then being told I am now outside of controlled airspace, ATC have made (or tried to) make something my problem that isn’t supposed to be my problem. I am in IMC, unaware of what airspace is where as I am on vectors, told to climb to an altitude I didn’t file in icing and told to remain outside of CAS.
Yep, downright dangerous and definitely not in the spirit of what ATC should provide – a service. I get the fact that we are the lowest form of aviation, but that also means we are the least equipped to deal with ‘’real IFR’’ and should be getting the best service to keep us safe and get us to destination. When being put on a vector, we don’t tell ATC ’’unable’’, we try and work within the system and sometimes enter some weather where we could expect to pick up some ice further down the road (with the ADL you have a pretty good idea most of the time) once that starts it is fair to expect ATC to work with us and keep us safe. Which is priority numero uno…
This is the definition of ATC :
The primary purpose of ATC systems worldwide is to separate aircraft to prevent collisions, to organise and expedite the flow of traffic, and to provide information and other support for pilots.
It seems in the UK this gets forgotten quite regularly…
