On a very quick scan (I have no time for the type of characters who hang out there, not to mention mods posting under several names to keep activity up) I bet you most of the posters are flight simmers or 10hr/year PPLs.
Peter wrote:
I bet you most of the posters are flight simmers or 10hr/year PPLs.
No, it’s worse. Some of the most negative fellows are professional pilots.
That’s always been true, too. Many big jet pilots think that you need 2 engines to fly a circuit 
I am sure there is a name for that behaviour… once you reach Standard X, you want to make it hard for others to reach it. But equally most prof pilots are clueless about GA. 99% of airline pilots would not know how to file and fly IFR from Shoreham to Le Touquet.
Like I said, send him to EuroGA and get him to describe his mission profile.
I read the first twenty or so posts of that pprune topic before giving up. I found it somewhat bizarre: the thread starter clearly states that he wants a jet because he can, for fun. Not because he needs it for his business (which makes it somewhat off topic for this thread here). So why try to stop him and throw stones in his way?
In this very thread here I listed reasons why an own aircraft might not be a sensible business proposition for many businesses in Europe, and I still think the list was correct. But the guy on pprune doesn’t want a sensible business proposition. He wants to own and eventually fly his own jet. And he is apparently rich enough to afford that. So why not support him? If he understands the risks, I also see no reason against single pilot operations after thorough training.
One of the drivers for the creation of EuroGA in 2012 was the meltdown of [the GA section of] that forum, and another one turning into what is basically a pub full of 10,000 post/year (10hrs/year) pilots slagging off every airport charging more than £10 Plus of course the non-existence of a forum with a “European” dimension, and a properly moderated forum where people can post without getting flamed, etc. And many other small reasons e.g. the mods allowing one aggressive character to run 4+ concurrent IDs.
So why not support him? If he understands the risks, I also see no reason against single pilot operations after thorough training.
Exactly!
But seriously, someone invite the guy over here, we have JasonC, what_next who actually do the flying, and loco who is in line for his Cirrus Jet if I’m not mistaken. Just do it via PM so the hordes don’t follow and force Peter to get his flamethrower out.
No need for PMs. The regular nasty forum characters almost entirely avoid EuroGA because there is not enough “meat” here to stick their teeth into. They all read it regularly – it’s obvious from various things which get said… I am quite happy with that situation
We did have a number of them turn up in the early days but they soon lost interest.
tmo wrote:
But seriously, someone invite the guy over here, we have JasonC, what_next who actually do the flying, …
I don’t think that this will change a thing. We all contributed on his thread over there already. And a few real pilots (some of which I know personally!) as well who don’t post on EuroGA. This morning he came up with the idea of flying a business jet for free by buying them cheaply and selling them off at double price one year later… This has worked for some in the past under very favorable circumstances, e.g. huge changes in currency exchange rates, but generally cheaply bought jets end their lives in the back of a hangar with massive outstanding payments.
Anyway, like Peter I am now convinced that this thread starter is really one of the forum mods posting under a fake name to revitalize the mainly dormant “Bizjets & GA” section.
AdamFrisch wrote:
With friends like these, who needs enemies?
There are always two sides to everything. For those here who are interested in the topic but don’t care to read the other thread a quick summary:
Some person, real or invented, asked for the real life figures of operating very light jets (either Mustang, Eclipse, Honda and maybe CJ1 or Phenom 100) privately for a given mission profile:
- 1200 NM range
- Toilet (because allegedly he has small children who need to go every half hour)
- Puchase budget 2M
- Annual budget: 300k
- Low usage in the order of 100 hours per year.
Lots of people who know these aircraft and the market told him that this will not be possible. Either of these points, but not all together.
So who is hurting GA here? And why?
Agreed he’s probably fake.
But in any case, unrealistic expectations doesn’t help anyone, but nor does exaggerated fear mongering. If there’s one thing I’ve found, it’s that plane ownership costs a lot less than the fear mongers say (but perhaps more than the rose tinted glasses). This guys sums up the general mentality:
Coming from the insurance industry(but pilot and aircraft mechanic before that), if you learn to fly, always fly with a professional pilot, even when you become experienced. In our world we see a lot of accidents with owner-flown jets. Usually businessmen who have a lot on their minds hop in their small get, take off into IMC at night and quickly get behind the airplane and crash. Even though VLJs are rated for single pilot ops doesn’t mean they should be by a non-professional. Get yourself a turbo Cessna 182 with all the bells and whistles to fly yourself for a couple thousand hours, and fly with a pro pilot in your jet.
Does this guy realize that the highest risk this owner will ever encounter, is in the “couple of thousand of hours” in the 182 he’ll be flying? So much nonsense. Yeah, having a “professional” pilot along, who’s just graduated with a MCC license and has 250hrs from a bottom-feeding pilot mill will make you safer? So much pro pilot protectionism b-shit in Europe it drives me nuts. Just feeding the fear. It’s like union scare tactics.
As a owner operated VLJ pilot, even if you only fly 100hrs year, you probably fly as much as most pro pilots do on the same type. We’re not comparing to airlines here, biz jets see a lot less utility. You go to same FlightSafety recurring, you have the same licenses – what’s the difference?
