Airfield Radio Operator uses FR24 to provide Radar Information!

I would prefer that it didn’t ever appear

I would suggest going for a flight with me, say 1500ft, a sunny Sunday, UK south east, and see how many of the planes which show up on TCAS while very nearly hitting us you would still wish to not appear.

There is no free lunch. If you want to block Mode S / ADS-B visibility, you will block TCAS visibility. Well, not quite, because pure Mode C still triggers TCAS, but EASA in its infinite wisdom has made replacement of a failed Mode C box illegal unless the replacement is of the same model. This over time will lead to lots more “civil liberties” people flying with their transponder turned off completely.

The comparison with cars is not really valid because car avoidance is done visually and one spots conflicting traffic 100% of the time, whereas no matter how well one looks one spots conflicting aircraft maybe 25% of the time.

My comment has been taken out of context. I never said I wanted to block my Mode-S output.

I said that I would prefer not to appear on the likes of FR24, which have no safety benefit and therefore no legitimate reason for invading my privacy.

I completely support the use of Mode-S and TCAS for their intended aviation-safety related purpose. I have seen TCAS thanks to another forumite and was indeed surprised at just how many contacts it could see that my eyes could not, no matter how hard I tried and even when I knew where to look. As well as keeping a good look out I generally fly as high as possible, take a radar service and/or fly IFR to mitigate this concern.

FR24 conveys no safety-related information whatsoever. It exists purely for entertainment purposes. Any ATC unit I have visited which has an unofficial form of Mode-S capability is using a standalone independent receiver (either commercial-grade or consumer-grade), they are not using the likes of FR24.

In the case of FR24, the car comparison is totally valid. FR24 profits from the publishing of private data (as in: it relates to and can be used to identify an individual) and in doing so invades our privacy. I don’t think it is acceptable to have my movements published for the world to see.

It would be completely unthinkable to have similar records of car journeys published for all to see… for instance, would you be happy if the whole world could see this (below) kind of detail every time you got in your car?

Mind you, so many weird things have happened in the last 12 months I am beginning to wonder if the Earth’s axis has tilted.

OK; a fair point. I just don’t think that publication can be prevented in practice. About the only way I can think of doing this, for those who want to “go places”, is to have two transponders, one Mode S and one Mode C. And use only the latter one if you want privacy. But you cannot do a fresh Mode C install anymore. I assume that applies only to EASA-reg, so this would have to be another reg (with a willing avionics shop), or an aircraft which has Mode C already and installs an additional Mode S.

Any ATC unit I have visited which has an unofficial form of Mode-S capability is using a standalone independent receiver (either commercial-grade or consumer-grade), they are not using the likes of FR24.

What I have heard on the radio is that a “website” was being used by the tower people, which suggests FR24, same as the original post here, but it could not have been FR24 actually because AFAICT FR24 delays the data by some minutes. I see this every time I fly; I get the alert on my tail number on my phone app after I have flown about 30-50 miles.

It is a very good point that any tower using Mode S or ADS-B for general awareness needs to have their own receiver.

I am beginning to wonder if the Earth’s axis has tilted.

It is tilted for sure

I don’t think a two transponder installation is required. All that needs to happen is for FR24 and their ilk to stop publishing information relating to privately owned aircraft.

For EU citizens, I believe that widespread publication of such data for privately owned aircraft can be prevented from 25 May 2018 thanks to the GDPR. Most sites will remove or anonymise your flights right now if you ask, though they don’t necessarily make this easy. From May 2018 they will have no choice but to stop.

Non-EU citizens will need to consult the data privacy laws in their respective jurisdiction.

I am beginning to wonder if the Earth’s axis has tilted.
It is tilted for sure

Hahaha, I meant more than usual.

Haha Earth`s axis tilted and it will continue to do so.

FR24 and all the others will just move to some country where they can’t be reached but can still take paypal payments…

And you can pick up ADS-B from all over Europe with just one centrally located antenna, on a hill and with some decent electronics, so if when ADS-B becomes significant in light GA the whole monitoring and republishing thing will go out of control anyway.

The NATS app I mentioned uses NATS data, so presumably Mode C traffic will be on there. The app tells you where and when it got data for each flight, sometimes it’s just a few seconds old, so nearly real time.

Peter wrote:

with just one centrally located antenna, on a hill

And that Holyrood park looks promising.
I`m joking, of course.

Neil wrote:

Rather than FR24 surely the app to use on the ipad is the new NATS one, which shows their data. It’s called Airspace Explorer and it seems really good to me.

I think this must only be available in the UK itunes store, as I can’t find it. If so, is the coverage also only UK airspace?