AeroPlus wrote:
I have participated 3 times in the French Coupe Breitling race where you fly with a team on an aircraft through all of France day and night and have to do 100 touch-and-go or landings within that time.
I don’t think Le Défi 100/24 is a good example since the rules, IIRC, call for having someone on board who can do the R/T in French (and understand the briefing, etc. which is also in French) and actually reference FCL.055(b) which defines what is needed to get a Language Proficiency.
Crikey! I never intended to cause such a debate.
Just come back to this thread and I must say I am quite taken aback.
I’d just like to clarify a couple of things about the French course:
1. It is not an official qualification, and this is made very clear from the outset. Even if a French LP qualification could be issued (and I am currently working on this with a Belgian language proficiency organisation) the CAA would not put it on your licence, and even if they could, the majority of UK pilots would need a lot more than a weekend to reach level 4 standard.
2. The aim of the course is not to teach people to speak French over a weekend, which would be unrealistic, but to teach people enough phraseology to make themselves understood in situations when French is the only option. There is a particular emphasis on giving and understanding position reports at uncontrolled airfields as this is the key to good situational awareness. The phraseology taught is a very grammatically simplified version of what French pilots use on the radio.
As an aside, I am in the same situation as LFHN student in that I did my PPL entirely in French in a French flying club, and automatically got level 6 with no test. I gained level 6 English (VFR) by taking the DGAC test.
The first course received very positive feedback. I will be running another at Halfpenny Green on 9/10 April if anyone is interested.
Just come back to this thread and I must say I am quite taken aback.
That is why @Bordeaux_Jim you should participate on EuroGA, rather than just drop in an advertisment for some course, disappear for a few months, and hope that some people turn up and give you money.
The “problem” with posting something worth discussing in a forum is that it may well get discussed 
I never intended to cause such a debate.
The easy way to avoid a debate is to place a paid advertisment in a magazine or on a website.
Indeed Peter, I shall try to participate in future. I have been reading the forum for yonks, but should participate more!
I’ll start by replying to a few of the questions which are particularly pertinent.
Noe: Do you know if a native french speaker but with a UK issued PPL (so with no french language endorsement) is legal to fly in “Francais seulement” ? I also know of French instructors with UK-issued CPLs who instruct in French flying clubs.
I have dealt with this case before. In practice, nobody will give you any bother. If you really want to make it ‘official’ you can get a letter from the DGAC stating that you are able to use French on the radio. If you would like a contact inside the DGAC to do this, please send me a PM and I’ll be happy to help eq.
Has anyone written to the DGAC asking was the position is (with a reference)?
Yes, the answer was “we don’t know”. As with many of these things, it really comes down to how zealous the enforcement is. To give an example, when we had our flyin to Saucats in June of last year, the police turned up and checked a number of aircraft (including Paul Sengupta’s Bulldog). They weren’t interested in anybody’s licence, just the paperwork for the aircraft themselves.
FR Only
Another interesting point is that the decision on whether or not an airfield is “FR only” is taken by the owners/operators of the airfield and not the authorities. That’s why you won’t find a definition of “FR only” in any official texts. What they are essentially saying is “please only speak French”, a bit like putting up a sign that says “no parking please”. The only exception to this is when you fly to an airfield with a FISO who does not have an English language qualification (rare but does happen – Cahors LFQQ is one example).
In reality, the advantage of learning basic aviation French is not to obtain a French LP qualification, but to understand what is going on around you. To use the example of the Saucats flyin again – at one point we had 7/8 in the circuit, including italians, English, and French. What happened? well.. the french pilots all switched to English!
Bordeaux_Jim wrote:
What they are essentially saying is “please only speak French”, a bit like putting up a sign that says “no parking please”.
I think this is the other way round – “please do not expect us to speak English”.
I have dealt with this case before. In practice, nobody will give you any bother. If you really want to make it ‘official’ you can get a letter from the DGAC stating that you are able to use French on the radio. If you would like a contact inside the DGAC to do this, please send me a PM and I’ll be happy to help
Do you mean that one can get that letter (not that I think it is required) merely by sending a written request (in French obviously), declaring that you are able to speak French and that you are familiar with the Frech radio phraseology manual? Or would you have to pass a test? If it’s the former, please send me a PM.
Do you mean that one can get that letter (not that I think it is required) merely by sending a written request (in French obviously), declaring that you are able to speak French and that you are familiar with the Frech radio phraseology manual? Or would you have to pass a test? If it’s the former, please send me a PM.
Normally they only issue it to native speakers.
It’s essentially the same way (I think) the CAA tests English for native speakers, through a simple conversation.
What they are essentially saying is “please only speak French”, a bit like putting up a sign that says “no parking please”.
I think this is the other way round – “please do not expect us to speak English”.
Yes, pretty much! There also appears to be no logic to it. Some airfields near me (e.g. Marmande) are “FR Only” and whenever I fly in they are deserted, whereas some of the busiest non-controlled airfields in the area (e.g. my airfield) are not FR only, and we have helicopters, aerobatics in the overhead, glider winching, and a whole host of other activities.
You could understand the inclusion of “FR only” if it was for safety reasons, but in practice it never appears to be done on this basis.
The same ATIS as at LFMU probably on the same day l don’t understand why not have real ATIS using today’s text-to-speech technology. It’s available for at least 25 years in various forms and today’s quality is outstanding.
