markpodbery wrote:
So Patrick, when we leave Hungary to go to Romania, this has to be a customs airport ie the airport in Hungary we leave and also a customs airport for the one in Romania we arrive at? Same thing, when we leave Romania this is from a customs airport to arrive in a customs airport in Hungary?Hopefully I have this right.
Yes pretty much only that the distinction “customs” versus “immigration” might not be correct. In Germany there are many airfields that provide “immigration” but not “customs”, i.e. they are good from/to Romania but not from e.g. Switzerland. Other countries might have the same differentiation. You need “immigration”.
The issue is that most of states have a provision in the AIP like this- “all international flight must clear customs/passport control”. Some of states have a note “not required within Schengen Area”. some states do not have such a note, but issued NOTAM allowing this. And some states are simply ignoring Schengen as Achim mentioned. This is customs/immigration
Flight plan is similar story. In general FPL is required for each and every international flight but there are provisions (AIP or NOTAM) to eliminate this requirement. Some provisions are general – “leaving/entering country XX requires no flight plans” , some provisions are more strict and limited for certain country pairs/type of airspace.
The issue is that you need always check both country you are leaving from and arriving to. And for both flight plan and customs/immigrations.
I can not speak on Hungary, but Czech situation is clear – no immigrations Czech when departing/arriving to/from Schengen coutnry, you can depart from any airport you want. You do not need to file a flight plan for VFR flight departing CZ. But be carefull, here is the point – Austria is not allowing flights from CZ without flight plan. This is an example where you need to check both departing and arriving country rules.
Michal wrote:
Austria is not allowing flights from CZ without flight plan.
Are you sure? I believe it’s only required when going from/to controlled airports in Austria.
other (positive) exception: Germany does not require customs when leaving the country, provided the aircraft is registered in the EU and it’s a private flight without goods to declare. I don’t know if there are other countries with the same concession.
Interesting. What is the exact wording of the reg?
achimha wrote:
Are you sure? I believe it’s only required when going from/to controlled airports in Austria.
Unless they change it in the last year, I am sure. They allow flight from Germany (and other countries) but not from CZ. And only for powered aircraft, gliders are ok to fly there for years (I believe even before Schengen)
edit – GEN 1.2 of Austrian AIP
the only problem the page is from 2008 ;-) can someone of Austria local folks check actual AIP if this is still present? EAD is sometimes years behind….
achimha wrote:
Another (positive) exception: Germany does not require customs when leaving the country, provided the aircraft is registered in the EU and it’s a private flight without goods to declare
I didn’t realize this. That’s pretty good! That means a direct flight to Switzerland from, say, EDLE is possible – though not back home without a customs stop!
Where is this defined?
Peter wrote:
Interesting. What is the exact wording of the reg?
You have to read German because to my knowledge there is no English translation. It’s directly from the German Federal Customs Agency (“Zoll”):
“Information leaflet about the exemption from the requirement to use a customs airport”
It can be found on this web page which also has a list of customs airports (not 100% up to date): http://www.zoll.de/DE/Fachthemen/Zoelle/Erfassung-Warenverkehr/Befoerderungspflicht/Zollstrassenzwang/zollstrassenzwang_node.html
2. ausfliegende Flugzeuge
Nach § 3 Abs. 3 ZollV sind Luftfahrzeuge, die unmittelbar aus dem Zollgebiet der
Gemeinschaft ausfliegen, und die damit beförderten Waren vom Zollflugplatzzwang befreit,
soweit die Voraussetzungen des Art. 231 oder 232 Abs. 2 ZollkodexDurchführungsverordnung
(ZK-DVO) vorliegen. Dies ist beispielsweise der Fall bei
ausfliegenden Luftfahrzeugen, die im Zollgebiet der Gemeinschaft zugelassen und dazu
bestimmt sind, später wiedereingeführt zu werden, sowie bei Reisemitbringseln im
persönlichen Gepäck von Reisenden, sofern Verbote und Beschränkungen nicht
entgegenstehen.
Rough translation:
2. departing aircraft
Pursuant §3 of the 3. Customs Implementation Regulation (3 ZollV), aircraft directly leaving the Customs Union and the transported goods are exempted from the requirement to use a customs airport provided the requirements of articles 231 or 231 paragraph 2 of the customs codes implementation order are met (ZK-DVO). An example where the exemption is granted are departing aircraft registered within the Customs Union and purposed to be brought back later as well as travel souvenirs in the personal luggage of travellers provided there no additional prohibitions and restrictions.
If you think about this for a while, it’s quite logical. When you arrive at the airport, you have to go through the green/red channel and you are subject to an inspection with officers scanning everybody. However, when you leave the country, you checkin your luggage and apart from scans for drugs etc. there is no formal customs. Countries usually do not care so much what is exported, only what is brought in. The reason is that customs are fees on imported goods, not exported.
BTW: This 231 and 232 ZK-DVO is actually EU law valid in all countries. It lists what is not subject to customs. You find the English version here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:31993R2454&from=DE
I have been trying to get prices for customs in Hungary, they all either want 60 Euro per aircraft to order customs to meet us, or the handling fees at the airports that have customs are very expensive!!
I have emailed LHPP waiting to hear but LHDC want over 100 Euro handling fees.
Any other ideas?!
Thanks
NB – you need immigration police, not customs. But if 60 bucks brings you the immigration police to whereever you choose, I’d go for it vs the hassle of big airports.
The question is why you need to stop in Hungary – if you have any reason to stay there you probably need to accept 60EUR. If you are stopping there just to show your passports, consider other options – you can stop anywhere between Prague and your destination in Romania – provided your aircraft has range long enough to reach Romanian destination from theere. There are airports with immigrations at no additional cost – like Portoroz LJPZ (probably too south for you).
