Airborne_Again wrote:
I have a reasonably good home simulator setup (including force-feedback yoke). I have it mostly to maintain some IFR currency e.g. during winter when you really need deicing for IMC, but I can’t say I enjoy it for its own sake.
This is not a home simulator setup, even though it is driven by Prepare3D and Prosim. It is a full 737-800 cockpit, enclosed. It is as close to the real thing as those things will get, but I had to admit to myself, whatever I expected, this was not it. Flying this thing is (almost) all of what flying should be: Challenging, a huge learning experience, full immersion and it is more fun than I’ve had in any form of flying over many many years.
What makes it very different is that I can go there whenever I want, without asking anyone for permission, without paying huge fees and without any hassle. I can take this thing into any airport I wish, including some of the most challenging in in the world such as Paro, Butan, or Samedan. No PPR, no permissions, I can go, do a flight between work and home and be back for dinner. I can do it after a late shift without anyone killing me for noise. I don’t have to worry about handling agents, about overzealous CAA’s, about unwilling airports, nothing at all.
As you are in Sweden, you should once get a session on the Caravelle Simulator which got its new home in Bunge, Gotland. That one is still a huge step above what I got access to, the very best sim I’ve ever flown and that includes every single full flight multi million dollar setup I’ve laid my hands on.
Or, if you ever come here, I’ll introduce you to ours.
Venice 04R
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Zurich 28
The one bit “missing” is that once you arrive, you will not be able to take your ALB at your destination but at the pub next door. Clearly, it is no replacement for travel. But it very well can replace the “flying bug”. At least for me.
Honestly, guys, promoting sitting at home alone with some fancy sim setup (costing thousands) will do nothing about the decline of activity at GA airfields and in the air.
A community of grumpy old men in high viz vests bickering about “safety” and old days is not very attractive (for anyone, except other grumpy old men
You may be describing yourself there 
but the real Q is what to do about it.
I am sure it needs multiple approaches.
I am equally sure that trying to address that part of the community which is absolutely struggling to hang in there a few hrs a year will not do anything useful either – that is just a property of GA which is shared by few or no other hobbies.
Trying to draw in some “drivers of 100k cars” may also not do much but it will do more than the last para above because at least those people are capable of doing stuff and paying for it. Actually a lot of “100k car owners” are already in GA: flying helicopters. And a number are flying SR22s.
A really big thing in GA in terms of VALUE is the social one. Lots of people overlook that. That is why I am constantly banging on about fly-ins and meet-ups. It is also the only way you will get women to participate; 99% will never fly somewhere (significantly) on their own.
the real Q is what to do about it
Is it, really?
Or is it, in the first place, do we want to do something about it? And why? And only then, eventually, how.
The world is changing, as its always been doing. And so are the people’s occupations and hobbies… the EAA tried to fight the attrition by creating the Young Eagle program many years ago. In total flown Young Eagles certainly a success, but the initial momentum sure has lost its initial energy.
AOPA and similar GA association (for Switzerland the AeCS, Aero-Club of Switzerland) are just a farce, good at collecting membership fees used for obscure expenses iso fighting to retain our privileges.
Never in history has so much information relating to aviation as a whole been at disposal for the masses. Still, the numbers of GA airplanes, and pilots, keep receding.
The only expansion is happening in the „uncertified“ field. But also here, how long will it last?
Nothing lasts forever 
The only expansion is happening in the „uncertified“ field. But also here, how long will it last?
If you flew at an airport with 600 GA operations a day, surrounded by a few similar others, the answer might be different than your own.
It really seems to me that the GA difference between Europa and the US is steadily growing. In our club here we have loads of young people who simply enjoy flying. There isn’t much of a social scene, so that’s definitely not the attraction. We (and other clubs in my general area) have a waitlist to join, with the average wait time being about a year. True, most of the younger members in our club don’t do a lot of multi-day touring, but they do go on camping trips, weekends in Vegas or visit family in Phoenix. What definitely is at play here is disposable income. Most of the younger members work in tech and draw very nice salaries. They also tend have some flexibilty wrt work hours. Of course, add to that the fabulous aviation infrastructure we have here.
Dan wrote:
Never in history has so much information relating to aviation as a whole been at disposal for the masses. Still, the numbers of GA airplanes, and pilots, keep receding
I think the elephant in the room is the decline of the general regard the profession has suffered over the last few decades. In my youth, youngsters who wanted to become pilots were a huge quantity and the work at the airlines was attractive. Airlines had sponsorship programs to get talented people in there, no matter where they came from. Schedules were attractive, so were salaries and benefits. The Airline industry was a place to be.
GA thrived also because of this. Flying was in. People loved to fly and people who could fly were held in fairly high regard. Flying was affordable in the sense that getting a PPL and flying for fun was a viable thing to do.
All that has changed. The airlines of today battle to get enough youngsters who wish to fly 6 leg day rotations, who will be home every evening (no more night stops, no more layovers whereever possible) who have to get themselves into huge debt to actually achieve a seat on a low cost airline where they spend the first 15 odd years paying back their debt? FA’s who need 2nd jobs to make ends meet?
GA suffers from the “generation burnout” syndrome as much as any other hobby too. Many of the teens and twens of today have long decided to jump off that bandwagon and take less exhausting work schedules, as they can see their parents burn out, marriages fail and families breaking up over schedules and expectations which are impossible to meet without MASSIVE effort. Even trying to find an evening to meet friends becomes a planning exercise with several months fully booked out? Looking at my schedule, I won’t be able to tell when my next day when I actually have nothing on the agenda and could do something. Is that normal? For most people I know it is. Some have dinner invitations which now are scheduled for 2025.
Personally for me, travel has been my favorite thing in the world for most of my life. No more. The way things have moved, I dread every single airline flight I have to take. My own homebase has become a place of shame where passengers can shop until they drop but have to spend the night before a flight camping on the floor before security if they wish to be sure to get their flights? At the same time, that airport has now outpriced GA for good? WTF?
Dan wrote:
Or is it, in the first place, do we want to do something about it? And why?
Exactly. Why. Who do we want to convince? And tell them what?
In the last twenty years there has been a surge of new career opportunities for talented young people, hopefully some of these might re invigorate GA down the line when they have decided they have time to become a owner pilot. Even Part 121 long haul jobs paying $300-500k aren’t going to attract the talent pool that historically might have gone down the airline cadet route.
Taken 5 minutes ago at my base, which is not exactly dying. The types are interesting (and all European)
I smiled earlier watching what appeared to be a Swiss based Gulfstream G-IV landing, making a very tight circle to land, rolling out at 100 ft and planting the main gear exactly on the numbers. You don’t see that done a lot here in that size plane, but I’m guessing the pilot does it elsewhere. He left shortly after, I’d suppose after dropping somebody off.
@Silvaire, with all due respect I’m not sure your latest post here’s got anything to do with the title of this thread GA activity and its decline, and our preoccupations here, in good ol’Europe, on the EuroGA forum.
Colonials and the ones of us able to take advantage still enjoy the US flying paradise, good for them.
As for the rest of the world, and Europe in particular…
It’s not being “colonials” in fact or mentality that makes the difference, actually.
The point is ‘fight back’, organize politically and otherwise. Gather funds to fight from pilots with money (thousands, not €50 donations), resist being divided into classes and conquered. You live in a democracy not a religious dictatorship and are being subjugated for no good reason. Lying down is not the way forward.
And if you think it’s only going to be GA in Europe, you’re incorrect in my view. GA is a leading indicator. There are people who would like you to work, pay taxes to them, live in small boxes only and take vacations on the train only in ‘approved’ places, with others of your ilk. And they’ll tell you it’s necessary and proper, and that your standard of living will be better as a result. They’re wrong.
Just returned from taking a German visitor flying, his first time in a light plane. Will be flying to Germany to take a two week motorcycle vacation in a few days, on a non-stop flight that is no hassles at all.
