Yep, sorted.
BeechBaby wrote:
that has not been fully tested
Can’t we finally lay this myth to rest? No other vaccines had been tested as thoroughly when they were introduced as the (western) Covid-19 vaccines. It is correct that the vaccines were deployed before Phase III testing was complete, but the purpose of Phase III is to show efficiency, not safety (that is done in earlier phases). It was abundantly clear at an early stage that the vaccines were good enough to make large-scale deployment meaningful even if the exact efficiency wasn’t yet known.
BeechBaby wrote:
People are being coerced and intimidated into putting something in their bodies, that has not been fully tested.
There might have been a tiny bit of truth in that in the beginning (I don’t think it was ever true, but I can see how someone might have thought so at the beginning).
But at this point, with 6 billion doses administered worldwide, it must be one of the most tested pharmaceutical products ever.
DELETED. Sorry Peter, but I just could not resist. Note to self, grow up and conform….
The above video is complete bollocks. The Internet is full of this stuff. Please don’t drop it in here also.
The “not been fully tested” line is trotted out by people who don’t know the first thing about medicines or their development. It’s the easiest to defeat of the ‘arguments’ that the anti-vaxxers have.
Airborne_Again wrote:
It is correct that the vaccines were deployed before Phase III testing was complete, but the purpose of Phase III is to show efficiency, not safety (that is done in earlier phases).
Safety data continues to be collected in phase III and thereafter – in post-marketing trials and in general use. Regulatory approvals generally place extensive obligations on license holders to continue to collect safety data. Phase I (and II) trials can only detect the most obvious and immediate safety issues because of the relatively low number of patients and short duration.
That said, I am opposed to compulsory injections (or even de facto compulsory injections in order to be able to live a normal life, as is happening in some countries) but certain occupation-based requirements are, in my view, reasonable. We already require that certain healthcare workers undergo screening and vaccination for various diseases, and it seems reasonable to me to make Covid-19 vaccination compulsory for those care workers who will be in close contact with those who are very vulnerable to the disease.
gallois wrote:
These are the people who would deny freedom to the many because they choose not to be vaccinated or tested..
I take the view that if you are uncomfortable being in a public place around unvaccinated people then the remedy available to you is to leave. I argue that the rules of the care home do not apply here, and you have no reasonable right to expect a public place to be free of the risk of airborne infectious disease. Those particularly susceptible to disease (whether immuno-compromised or just very old and frail) have always had to manage their own risk and society never before went down a path of attempting to ensure, by placing requirements on others, that public spaces were safe for them. The analogies drawn with HIV and the existing legal penalties for infecting someone are completely bogus. What is happening now – the requirement to (constantly) prove a particular aspect of your medical history in order to perform everyday activities – is completely unprecedented.
Putting the rights or wrongs to one side for a moment, it does raise an interesting question of what the end game is. If we accept two basic facts – 1) Covid is endemic and elimination is not possible, and 2) the point of vaccination (and de facto compulsory vaccination) is to reduce the overall impact of it – then under what circumstances would you remove the requirement for the pass sanitaire? Or must it exist forever? The latter must surely be unpalatable, even to those comfortable with a high degree of government oversight of everyday personal activities?
I distance myself from @BeechBaby’s views. He is anti-vax, I am anti-compulsion.
What @Graham said. I couldnt agree more.
I have actually seen Police/Gendarmes checking that people have the health pass, but only once.
Ive been asked at every Restaurant/cafe/bar Ive been to.
The interesting one is the October(?) Societies/Clubs requirement for the health pass which means not only do kids require it for the school bus but also to do extra curricular activities. It technically looks like you would need it to fly at an aeroclub too – we discussed this at our last meeting – and presumably the FFA will make a statement.
Regards, SD..
If proving your vaccine status to live a normal life were to become an entrenched feature of French life, and indeed in the other countries that I recently visited, It’s interesting to me to ponder the future of tourism in those areas. I cannot imagine the feeling of being in an authoritarian state is conducive to attracting people with choices. It’s not pleasant, even as one tries to ignore it along with everybody else.
Having said that, as I mentioned above, as a tourist I was never once asked for my ‘Covid Pass’ at e.g restaurants or shops in Germany, Austria, Italy and Slovenia. I think most people know a bad idea when they see it, and in the absence of enforcement push as hard against it as they can get away with. As my sister in law said as we were seated indoors at an Austrian restaurant last week minus masks or showing passes, “they know what to do”, meaning the restaurant operators know what they can get away with, and what their clients prefer.
I had a good enough trip regardless, over 3000 km from Bavaria to Tuscany, but I’m left to ponder whether I will return, even after so many similar trips over the last 25 years. The ‘Covid Pass’ concept gives me the creeps and is a strong motivation not to do so.
I still have prepaid reservations in Corsica that I’ve planned to use in 2022. Time will tell.
gallois wrote:
Well all I can say is that around here we are doing very little different to what we were doing before the pandemic. The exceptions being we flash a QR code on entering a restaurant or bar.
We also still wear masks when moving around inside restaurants and shops and on public transport, but I’m not sure that’s mandatory, anymore.
This is the reality. Its not exactly the same as life before Covid, and I personally dislike the mask wearing symbolism, but France certainly doesn’t feel like a police state – certainly not as it did in Lockdown #1 last year (now that was certainly rather disconcerting) – you are free to go where you want within France and the travel rules to get into France are pretty much “you need to be double vaccinated” unlike many other countries.
Regards, SD
@skydriller did you actually see police/gendarmes stopping someone in the street to see the “Pass Sanitaire” which they have no right to do, or were these people sitting in the outside space of a bar or restaurant, where they have a right to check?
Personally I don’t bother getting worked up about things that might happen in October as between now and then they could change dramatically.
In fact as I have written before, I just don’t have a problem with the current system, not enough to get worked up about.
I fly, I eat, I drink, I meet with friends, I travel (some places by some methods) exactly as I did before Covid. Vaccination cost me nothing. The Pass Sanitaire cost me nothing. The only time I have paid for a test was in the UK, £20×2.
If anti vaxxers, anti compulsioners or anti whateverers want to make a big thing of it, well go ahead. We live in countries which allow us to protest if we don’t like somerhing. We also live in countries where people can ignore your protests. There are far too many other problems in life to worry about such as our Avgas pump has sprung a leak and Total want around €45000 to fix it. The club can’t afford it and mostly uses diesel. The owners club can’t afford it and use mainly mogas anyway. The gliding club use mogas for their tow plane. The mayor, has changed and is luke warm to GA so hasn’t the budget. It now depends on the 2 maintenance outfits or no more avgas here, after 40+ years.
Covid Pass who cares?
