Is it clear that some vaccines are much easier to make than others? It doesn’t look like it. All the mfgs are having yield problems.
The price differences are huge. Not seen any explanation for that, but there must be a real one otherwise everybody would laugh at some, especially at Moderna.
@Fuji_Abound sorry I meant that it didn’t matter much which law applied, not that Belgian law doesn’t matter!
The vaccines are quite different so costs are different. The AZ vaccine is ‘ordinary’, made using the Vaccine 101 playbook – the usual way one makes most vaccines. The Pfizer one uses a fairly new technology with fancier processes so it costs a lot more. And then AZ is doing it not-for-profit so that makes a huge difference.
@LeSving I’m not sure if this episode has shown the UK in any particular light – we’re just getting on with it and doing our best. The European Commission has certainly shown its true colours though, and Russia must be loving it.
skydriller wrote:
Anyone else surprised at the difference in price between the different vaccines?
No! Because obviously the pricing has been made cost-based and the cost for R&D as well as manufacturing is different for different vaccines.
@Fuji_Abound sorry I meant that it didn’t matter much which law applied, not that Belgian law doesn’t matter!
Oh no my apologies, I was only joking!
Graham wrote:
I’m not sure if this episode has shown the UK in any particular light – we’re just getting on with it and doing our best. The European Commission has certainly shown its true colours though, and Russia must be loving it.
What I meant, it seems to me this incident is a big thing in UK media, and nowhere else. Which is very odd, because as you say: “we’re just getting on with it and doing our best”. You UK’ers on this site for instance, have one single focus: putting a bad light on the EU about this. It’s all scadenfreude from that part of the channel. Now, a friend would ask: “what can we do to help”. A friend wouldn’t laugh and say: “there you get what you deserved you stupid bastard”. It doesn’t look nice, not from my point of view in the north, so to say 
But, as I said, this incident is hardly mentioned in the news here, and when it is, the focus is on the technical aspects of the delay in production, and what the effect of those delays will be. The effect will be huge delays in the vaccine program, by several months. By the looks of it right now, those delays will be mitigated to some extend, maybe even full extent?, with the Sputnik V vaccine and increased production by Pfizer/BioNtech (new production sites).
LeSving wrote:
You UK’ers on this site for instance, have one single focus: putting a bad light on the EU about this. It’s all scadenfreude from that part of the channel.
Not all the UK’ers ;-)
Some of us have just learned to live with the monologue :-)
LeSving wrote:
What I meant, it seems to me this incident is a big thing in UK media, and nowhere else
I think it’s been pretty big news in the EU. Certainly got some attention in Ireland on Friday evening!
LeSving wrote:
You UK’ers on this site for instance, have one single focus: putting a bad light on the EU about this. It’s all scadenfreude from that part of the channel. Now, a friend would ask: “what can we do to help”. A friend wouldn’t laugh and say: “there you get what you deserved you stupid bastard”.
Please don’t put words like that into my mouth – that’s not my attitude at all. I simply believe that the EU overstepped its remit getting into a matter that would have been better left to individual nations, delivered badly, and has reacted very aggressively to try and deflect attention from its own failings. It is exactly the kind of thing that always concerned the UK while it was a member – attempting to act as one and pretend that the interests of the 27 are all the same when they clearly are not. I voted to remain, BTW, and although I regret the fact that we left I am glad we didn’t get involved with the vaccine procurement programme. It doesn’t sound like there was an opt-out available.
LeSving wrote:
But, as I said, this incident is hardly mentioned in the news here
Perhaps because Norway is not an EU member?
LeSving wrote:
What I meant, it seems to me this incident is a big thing in UK media, and nowhere else.
That isnt my impression. It appears to have been (is being) pretty widely covered in Europe in the press and media.
However, it is pretty much inevitable that when one party thinks it has done “better” than the other this is also reflected in the amount of publicity. We all like good news, and dislike bad, even the press, surprisingly.
I hold the same opinion I think as Graham, I am pretty neutral on the subject. I feel the EU were wrong to take the stance they did, and I feel the UK were wrong when we flouted international law in the run up to our exit from the EU, so I like to think I am independently minded enough to reach a position on the facts alone.
i would imagine Norway are pretty indifferent to the whole incident, and in terms of Covid more than pleased that they arent part of the EU’s attempt to control the market for their member states which seems to be so ill conceived, but worse, poorly executed. As I say, this isnt to “have a go” at the EU, just the way it appears to be.
In the end the whole vaccine story is quite straightforward.
There is a demand which can’t be met. So everyone is trying to be first. Natural.
It has been clear that vaccining the whole of Europe will take time, probably all year. So what we need to do is keep the measures up until it can be done and in the meantime vaccine as many as we can. If the Russians get their vaccine into some countries, it will free capacity by the others for other countries.
That is pretty much what’s going on. Clearly they will try to speed up production, clearly there are screw ups, as is quite normal for such an operation of this magnitude, but all in all, they got vaccines done in record time, now it is production they need to get going. Trying to get first in line is a natural instinct but it won’t help in the end.
There is another perspective in this whole affair.
It is undeniable that Britain is by far the leading nation in Europe in the fields of life science research (Oxford and Cambridge Universities etc – plus lots of big and small life science companies) and also venture capital and entrepreneurialism. We believe in taking risk. We also have the most centralised health care system – the NHS, one that is under complete government control and one which is uniquely well suited to undertaking clinical trials. We certainly do not lead in areas like engineering, automobile manufacture, or wine production – but in life science, VC and clinical trials we have huge advantages.
Given this, it is logical that Britain should do a good job of working with the research teams involved, negotiating vaccine contracts, supporting the manufacturers and generally taking some judicious risk. A little known fact for example: on a critical day in mid January 2019 the Oxford University Jenner Institute (vaccine) team decided to put aside all other research and focus on Covid. Problem, they needed money IMMEDIATELY to get going with procurement and hiring. The government , with the best will in the world, couldn’t transfer funds same day. So a colleague of mine at Oxford that night made just two phone calls, to successful alumni entrepreneurs of the university, who between them transferred well over £5 million of seed capital that instant. Not in return for an investment in the program, as a GIFT. In what other country in Europe could that happen.
Another little appreciated fact, the British government, in the succeeding weeks and months made support and advance payments to the research teams and companies at a level of SEVEN times per capita more than the EU has done, and much earlier. The process in Britain is run for the government by successful VC – Kate Bingham – who has been seconded in for the duration.
I say all this, not to crow, for Britain has got almost everything else about managing Covid spectacularly wrong – for a whole host of reasons that are deeply entrenched in British culture and the way government operates here. But thank god, in vaccine procurement, we played to our strengths, and it is working.
And it will benefit the rest of the EU in time, as Britains support of the vaccine programs in the early days, will benefit everyone inside and outside its borders.
