After living and flying a Piper Warrior in Greece for 6 years as part of an aeroclub I have now June 2013) been refused permission to fly by the Hellenic CAA because I am NOT a Greek National. Apparently further security checks are needed - I am a UK citizen. 5 years ago I underwent security screening to be allowed on the ramp - no problem. The day I was refused permission to fly there were 10 GA - (SEP)planes on the ramp as part of a tour. None were Greek and none were flown by Greek Nationals. They were all cleared to fly. BUT all the foreign students and instructors at this Greek airport have also been refused permission to fly pending new security checks. However, if you say you are a private passenger and pay 12 euros then you can enter the ramp (ostensibly as a passenger) - and then take your flying lesson or whatever - presumably illegally and presumably uninsured.
Anybody know if this is just Greek bureaucracy? Is it a way to get more money? Or is there some new security regulation applicable to the EU that I don't know about? It doesn't seem to have been thought through at all or make any sense. Do foreign nationals bringing their own or club planes to Greece this summer know about this? Will they be allowed to land and then not be allowed to leave? Do English Citizens in France, Germany or Spain face the same problems?
Anyway, it won't encourage General Aviation Pilots or students to come to Greece and bring their money, which is sad since the weather is great and the people at the airports are helpful, generous and friendly. And I wonder how long I will wait for the new security clearance?
freesair your post lacks substance.
The claims are too generic.
There is no such thing in Greece as UK Citizens not being allowed to fly or most importantly getting lengthy security checks. This from the start beats the purpose of your post because its so clear its biased.
All souls entering a ramp in a Greek airport pass security screening. If you can't figure out why this is done, especially in ramps having arliners flying to other large airports I can't help more.
You did not specify what aircraft register (nationality), what type of Pilot license you intended to fly with, if aircraft papers were OK etc.
In general your post is too generic to figure out what may have been the case.
If the Greek administration treats you differently from Greek nationals, then it is violating EU law. They do not have the right to make you go through additional procedures or pay additional fees.
How do they separate you from the rest that is allowed to fly? Is there a WANTED poster with your picture at every airport?
Hi Petakas, Let me give you specifics. I fly a Greek registered plane (SX) as part of an aeroclub that I have been a member of for 6 years. I'm not stupid, of course I appreciate the need for security which is why I underwent security checks 5 years ago and received a pass to enter the pista (apron) at that time. I probably have flown 30 hours a year for the past 6 years from this airport. I fly with a Greek issued CPL and the plane is a Piper Warrior. I also do some teaching at the same airport both on the ground and in the air for a private school - nothing to do with the aeroclub. All foreign (non Greek) students and foreign instructors at the school have also been denied the right to fly without additional security checks (so it's not just me Achimba and there is no wanted poster). I agree that it is probably a violation of of EU law & I have written in much more detail to the HCAA, EASA and the UK CAA since I am a UK citizen, as well as to the ombudsman for discrimination in the European Union. The staff in the Airport Authority Office said they had received instruction about foreign nationals when I went to file my General Declaration - needed for EVERY flight in Greece. They referred me to the Head of Security who told me he had instructions from the HCAA in Athens not to allow non Greek EU nationals to fly without additional security checks taking maybe 20 days - but probably much longer. I'm not making this up it is completely true. I wonder what happens to non Greek registered GA planes that come to this airport with European but non-Greek pilots - will they be allowed to fly? I don't know what else to tell you.
Would you mind sharing the name of the airport?
The GD nonsense is indeed required but it's just a small nuisance. I have always felt very welcome at Greek airports (EU national with D-reg aircraft), nobody ever wanted to cause any trouble.
freeasair ok now I understand. I will not ask you if the license is JAR or national, I assume you know that with national licenses you cannot fly any more.
There's no reason for you not to mention at least the airport. One of us (Greeks) reading the forum may be able to help at least in finding the background of this. Have you considered this ?
If you don't want to disclose the airport at least state if its close to our eastern border or if it is a joint MIL/CIV airport. I have my reasons for asking.
For what its worth I am flying since 1990 in Greek airports and even though I am Greek citizen I know what is happening with non Greek citizens and this is the FIRST time I hear such an issue.
I will be able to help if you give more data on the issue. If you don't want via here let me know via email, petakas at gmail dot c0m
What you write might be all true but all new and still not known to the rest.
What I can tell you for sure is that non Greek citizens (EU or not) are passing by our airports freely without any hassle and without prior background checks taking weeks. All they need to have is an ID.
The only "discrimination" that exists is that for joint MIL/CIV airports any aircraft reg. (including Greek) needs to submit aircraft and persons on board details 5 working days in advance to be allowed to land. Only Greek register aircraft are exempted and only on SAT and SUN in that they are allowed to fly in without that prior notice.
Last question, are you possibly referring to the issue of getting issued a STAFF pass magnetic ID that gives you free access to the ramp without handling agents and is issued by each local CAA ? If that is the case please state it and don't present it as an issue of just accessing the ramp because this is an all too different chapter and OFF COURSE the security/police will need a lengthy background check of who they issue those free unescorted staff pass cards with which one can open any door and access the ramp at international airports. I say this because you mentioned you also WORK there as part of a school. Working somewhere and having the privileges of a based operator is an all too different story from the casual GA pilot who walks to his Piper always with an escort of handling agent for security reasons.
This issue had come up in the past with based operators and aeroclub members who just want to walk up to the Piper unescorted. Regulations say that unless you have such a pass card ANYONE must be escorted by handling agent who just waits there until your flight leaves ground. Offcourse the handling agents are charging for each handling and this has been a point of friction with aeroclubs who are based in big international airports. This is the only way airports in Greece (and everywhere) have managed to get the thumbs up from all sorts of auditors on security issues. It hurts based GA operators at large airports but we all understand what "any" aeroclub member would be able to do if he/she had free access to the ramp without been screened, body searched, escorted and and and... As a passenger of these airline flights I am all too happy about it, I assume you catch my drift.
We initiated email communication on the issue with freeasair and I will take it up from here. When we hopefully sort this out I/he will revert back to this thread.
Petakas said : This issue had come up in the past with based operators and aeroclub members who just want to walk up to the Piper unescorted. Regulations say that unless you have such a pass card ANYONE must be escorted by handling agent who just waits there until your flight leaves ground. Offcourse the handling agents are charging for each handling and this has been a point of friction with aeroclubs who are based in big international airports. This is the only way airports in Greece (and everywhere) have managed to get the thumbs up from all sorts of auditors on security issues. It hurts based GA operators at large airports but we all understand what "any" aeroclub member would be able to do if he/she had free access to the ramp without been screened, body searched, escorted and and and...
I remember a club which was based on a very large airport in France. Members had to enter the airport through the main outside gate, manned by the police. The gate used by airport staff, trucks and so on... they were searched, screened, but then they could go to the hangar and aircraft without any escort. After all, that's what all airport employees do all the time and some of them even work close to the airliners. So why would the local AC pilots get a special treatment? Once it is sure they hide no weapon, no explosives...
Maybe because in airports with mixed traffic with aircraft parking close to each other (eg a SEP parked 20 meters away from the airliner) there must be someone responsible for the safety of both aircraft and all passengers. So, if you want to go to your a/c when an airliner taxies, parks and disembarks, someone must escort you in the same way that someone is escorting the passengers of the airliner. Of course all this can be solved if there is a separate apron for GA where people can go, after passing the initial security check that you mentioned.
END OF STORY.
While I was making these postings I also filed an official Incident Report with the airport manager and a separate one with The Hellenic CAA requesting to know what regulations had changed, what the new regulation was and specifically what I needed to do to be able to fly again as soon as possible. I didn't actually get a reply to either Incident Report but 4 days later I received a phone call from the Head of Security apologising for a "misunderstanding on his part that had caused confusion" and confirming that I was indeed allowed to fly and already had all the necessary clearances and licences. Thanks for your help PETAKAS.
