lionel wrote:
Ibra was talking about EU regulation, not CH regulation!
My quote from @Ibra was his comment about French customs expectations, not EU or CH regulation.
It should be clear to all that on the Swiss side, regardless of flight direction, Swiss customs regulations apply. I think the application of those regulations has been discussed at length.
As @Ibra mentioned, EU regulations allow border crossing (in or out) as an implicit declaration of nothing to declare without any further notice. Your comments concur with that. What French customs want to see is something else. There are however reported specific cases where they have allowed direct flights to smaller airfields where the AIP indicates no customs, provided that notification is sent in advance. I just wonder if @Ibra has seen something from French customs formalizing that. I haven’t.
@chflyer I actually have a reply from the French customs regarding my visit to Aix-les-Milles, an airport without customs.
My question, sent to French customs was:
“Bonjour
Je me permets d’écrire en Anglais. Une réponse en Français est pas un problème.
My wife and I are visiting Aix-les-Milles (LFMA) from Lyon and would like to directly depart from LFMA to LSZG (Grenchen, Suisse). It has come to my attention that there is a new UE customs regulation that apparently allows travel across the border without using a customs airport and without any formalities.
Link to Règlement délégué (UE) 2020/877:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/FR/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32020R0877
Details on our intended flight (only departure, we arrive from Lyon):
- Flight: Departure under IFR to LSZG, Grenchen, Switzerland on […], estimated departure time […] UTC
- Airplane: […]
- No goods to declare, private/leisure flight
- 1 pilot, 1 passenger (both Swiss citizens)
Can you confirm that direct travel from Aix-les-Milles (LFMA) to Switzerland will be possible?
Are there any formalities required at all?"
Reply from French customs (very weird that they argued based on Schengen which has nothing to do with customs, but they internally asked border control and then the customs office replied):
“Hello,
As a follow-up to your request and the response of the border police service, I inform you that there is no particular procedure concerning people and their free movement within the Schengen area. SWITZERLAND benefits from free movement agreements for its nationals within the Schengen Area.
Article 2.5 a and b of the Schengen Border Code refers to this matter (beneficiaries of the right to free movement, under Union law)
In addition, aerodromes not having the status of border crossing point like Aix-les-Milles are authorized to receive direct flights from or to countries belonging to the Schengen area, without any formality linked to the border control of persons is required.
So, you can fly directly to Aix-les-Milles to reach Grenchen in Switzerland without any formality.
Best regards,
DR de PROVENCE – Service PAE
6, boulevard du Château Double – CS 80437
13098 AIX EN PROVENCE
Tél : 09.70.27.91.23
douane.gouv.fr"
This actually gave me the idea to help start a petition on this, because even though I ultimately completed the flight, I still felt legal uncertainty.
ArcticChiller wrote:
In addition, aerodromes not having the status of border crossing point like Aix-les-Milles are authorized to receive direct flights from or to countries belonging to the Schengen area, without any formality linked to the border control of persons is required.So, you can fly directly to Aix-les-Milles to reach Grenchen in Switzerland without any formality.
I’d like to print this email and frame it and carry it with me. That’s really great news!
eurogaguest1980 wrote:
ArcticChiller wrote: In addition, aerodromes not having the status of border crossing point like Aix-les-Milles are authorized to receive direct flights from or to countries belonging to the Schengen area, without any formality linked to the border control of persons is required. So, you can fly directly to Aix-les-Milles to reach Grenchen in Switzerland without any formality.I’d like to print this email and frame it and carry it with me. That’s really great news!
Hi Mickey and All.
That would really be great news indeed but it is unfortunately incorrect:
- It is true that Switzerland is part of Schengen. But the customs regulations are two-dimensional: Schengen + EU. Switzerland not being in the EU, it requires, on both directions, a prior notice to the customs and to land on an airport that is listed in the International Union Airports (out of which we can all see one of our favorite spots: Pontarlier LFSP — where we are currently installing 1090+868 MHz receivers to increase situational awareness in the area).
- For countries that are both Schengen and EU, there are no restrictions.
- For countries that are extra-Schengen and extra EU: prior notice to both customs and the border force through a PPF (point de passage frontière), for France the list is in AIP GEN 1.3 (also here)
- For countries that are extra-Schengen and intra EU: prior notice to border force and through a PPF.
As I understand it, customs concerns EU while border force concerns Schengen.
You can well imagine that I already signed the ongoing petition on EU portal…
I guess we all know the basics of what you just wrote.
But the point of eurogaguest is that if you contact the local customs office, and get an ok for a flight to x (x being a non-customs aerodrome), then it should be ok to fly there. And it (sometimes) seems to work in practice.
Anyway, the point of the petition is to get one step further, i.e. NOT having to contact customs beforehand anymore (with the issue of not knowing how they might react), but to be able to “just fly”, and to make the EU customs declaration by crossing the border, as intended by the European legislation.
BOD wrote:
- It is true that Switzerland is part of Schengen. But the customs regulations are two-dimensional: Schengen + EU. Switzerland not being in the EU, it requires, on both directions, a prior notice to the customs and to land on an airport that is listed in the International Union Airports (out of which we can all see one of our favorite spots: Pontarlier LFSP — where we are currently installing 1090+868 MHz receivers to increase situational awareness in the area).
Thanks for this. Strange that Annemasse is not listed.
—
Mickey
Thanks for this. Strange that Annemasse is not listed.
Good catch, thanks.
No idea why as Annemasse should indeed be in this list. Always worth checking the relevant National AIP, beyond the EU list linked above.
