Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Near miss (UK)

I think that mandatory TCAS alert reporting applies only to AOC (public transport etc) flights.

But yes your question is valid; the wording is weird. A pilot is not in any position to achieve separation, except with respect to CAS boundaries. And you can fly anywhere in Class E, VFR, non-radio.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I think the way Class E works in my area is that jets mostly fly along known routes while below 18,000 ft (the floor of Class A) and many are indicated on VFR charts. Most other traffic avoids those routes. Nobody wants to ‘ride a moped across a freeway’, as an early instructor once described it to me. That, combined with ATC radar service calling traffic and TCAS keeps the jets from hitting anybody. Mandating ATC radio contact when in Class E (i.e. almost all airspace under 18,000 ft) would be impractical in the US due to the existing volume of traffic in Class E (too much for ATC to handle), and because most people would stop flying (which oddly enough is not considered a solution!)

Saving any amount on the order of £10M annually in the UK by not having Class E or ATC radar service in a dodgy airspace setup strikes me as nuts. That is a trivial amount of money in the context of government expenditures.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 02 Aug 15:13

True. It’s not just about the added cost of “covering” the whole country with class E airspace and the resulting cost. It’s getting rid of all those “full ATC” islands all over the place. A huge saving. I mean: you don’t need an approach controller sitting in a tower with windows, next to the TWR controller. Germamy noticed this about 25 years ago and did away with them. You could take all the approach comtrollers of the UK, reduce their number by the factor of 5 and put the rest of them into a shed somewhere on the Orkneys (or abroad, for that matter) to do service as an “area radar controller”.

The problem is more that nobody seems to want to dare this mega revision of the airspace and ATC structure, possibly because there might be nothing really to be gained for anybody. In fact, it is not certain that a new system will effectively turn out to be safer. But cheaper it would be, that’s for sure.

German DFS is currently expanding all over Europe (and the world) with their portfolio and services. I am sure they would have a ball turning things upside down in the UK. Problem is it would put a stop to IFR in uncontrolled airspace, a stop to the IMC rating and lots of other things. Revolution!

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

boscomantico wrote:

A huge saving. I mean: you don’t need an approach controller sitting in a tower with windows, next to the TWR controller. Germamy noticed this about 25 years ago and did away with them. You could take all the approach comtrollers of the UK, reduce their number by the factor of 5 and put the rest of them into a shed somewhere on the Orkneys (or abroad, for that matter) to do service as an “area radar controller”.

You can save even more by putting a radar screen in the tower and let the TWR controller handle approach control service as well. This is how it is done at Swedish airports with low traffic intensities. In some places they open a separate approach control position if traffic gets to intense. (All towers in Sweden except one have radar.)

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

boscomantico wrote:

A huge saving. I mean: you don’t need an approach controller sitting in a tower with windows, next to the TWR controller.

That is how NATS does it with Gatwick and Heathrow. Approach is sitting in Swanwick.

EGTK Oxford

On a flight today, CW around the IOW, around here

got a TCAS warning of a plane 500ft below and converging. Could not see him, but not an issue. But at about 1 mile, around 1002 UTC, he started climbing fast towards me. Either a joker, or more likely didn’t see me (sun in his eyes). I climbed as much as I dared given the CAS ahead, and just missed him. Then (as shown) did a left 360 to see what it was but never got visual. He was moving quite fast.

Luckily for both of us he was Mode C and not one of the countless invisible planes which fly in this spot which is notorious for MORs for the briefest infringements by Solent.

No reply from either Solent or Bournemouth today, and nothing heard on either frequency. Must have gone home… but I bet the CAS is monitored by CAIT software and you will be busted regardless of the reason.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Southampton was closed and the associated CTR and CTA de-established until 1100Z and after 1415Z today. So you could have climb.

Nympsfield, United Kingdom

OK; next time I see somebody heading for me and I have some seconds to make a decision, I will reference the EGHI notams to see what I should do

That guy wasn’t on FR24 BTW so probably just plain Mode C; another lesson for those looking at the various EC boxes which won’t show these. Nowadays, Mode C only aircraft are rather sought after in some quarters because while CAIT will pick them up if busting, tracking them down is a lot of legwork for the CAA and based on my Gasco day (where most I managed to speak to were Mode S) they don’t bother; they go after the low hanging fruit. If you work in the CAA and fly, a Mode C aircraft would definitely be desirable

B1223/20
Q) EGTT/QAECA/IV/NBO/AE/000/055/5050N00132W023
A) EGHI
B) 2006010530 C) 2006142145
E) FOR PILOTS OPERATING OUTSIDE THE SOUTHAMPTON ATZ/CTR AND SOLENT
CTA NOT REQUIRING A SERVICE, PLEASE SQUAWK MONITOR 7011 AND MONITOR
SOLENT 120.230MHZ.
IF A TRANSIT OF THE SOUTHAMPTON ATZ/CTR OR SOLENT CTA IS REQUIRED,
PLEASE REQUEST ON SOLENT 120.230MHZ, REMAINING OUSIDE OF CONTROLLED
AIRSPACE UNTIL ATC CLEARANCE IS ISSUED.
FOR AMENDED AIRSPACE OPENING TIMES REFER TO NOTAM COVID-19 B1222/20
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION.

B1243/20
Q) EGTT/QAECA/IV/NBO/AE/000/055/5050N00132W023
A) EGHI
B) 2006081330 C) 2006081900
E) SOUTHAMPTON ATZ/CTR AND SOLENT CTA ACTIVE.

B1250/20
Q) EGTT/QAECA/IV/NBO/AE/000/055/5050N00132W023
A) EGHI
B) 2006011400 C) 2006142145
E) COVID 19 INFORMATION:
MON-FRI 1100-1330 SOUTHAMPTON ATZ/CTR AND SOLENT CTA ARE ACTIVE
SAT-SUN – SEE DAILY NOTAM FOR ANY ACTIVITY PLEASE NOTE OUTSIDE OF
THESE TIMES DETAILED ABOVE, SOUTHAMPTON ATZ/CTR AND SOLENT CAN
RE-ACTIVATE AT SHORT NOTICE.
MON-SUN BETWEEN 1100-1900 PILOTS ARE REQUESTED TO MAKE BLIND CALLS
ON SOLENT 120.230 AND MONITOR UNTIL CLEAR. SQUAWK MONITOR 7011 FOR
SOLENT/SOUTHAMPTON IS ADVISED. IF DEPARTING FROM A SITE WITHIN THE
ATZ/CTR, TRY CALLING SOUTHAMPTON ATC ON THE LANDLINE OR MAKE BLIND
CALLS WHILST ON THE GROUND TO SOLENT 120.230 MHZ.

C2914/20
Q) EGTT/QMXXX/IV/M/A/000/999/5057N00121W005
A) EGHI
B) 2005041225 C) 2006302359
E) ALPHA 6 HOLD POINT AND AREA NORTH OF ALPHA 6 HOLD POINT CLOSED

C3677/20
Q) EGTT/QFAAH/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5057N00121W005
A) EGHI
B) 2006041400 C) 2006072200
E) COVID 19 INFORMATION:
AIRPORT OPERATIONS HOURS FROM 1115-1330 MON-FRI AIRPORT OPERATIONS
AVAILABLE OUTSIDE THESE HOURS UPON MINIMUM 60 MINUTES NOTICE BETWEEN
1100-1900 DAILY. RFFS COVER MON-FRI CAT 5, SAT-SUN CAT 3. CONTACT
AIRPORT DUTY MANAGER ON 02380627113 IF REQUIRED

C3679/20
Q) EGTT/QFAAH/IV/NBO/A/000/999/5057N00121W005
A) EGHI
B) 2006080500 C) 2006142200
E) COVID 19 INFORMATION: AIRPORT OPERATIONS
MINIUM 60 MINUTES NOTICE BETWEEN 1100-1900 DAILY CONTACT AIRPORT
DUTY MANAGER ON 02380627113
MON-TUE 1115-1900 RFFS CAT 5
WED-FRI 1115 – 1600 RFFS CAT 5
SAT-SUN RFFS CAT 3

C3712/20
Q) EGTT/QNLXX/IV/BO/A/000/999/5057N00121W005
A) EGHI
B) 2006080700 C) 2006091900
E) NDB EAS FREQUENCY 391.5 KHZ RADIATING FOR TEST PURPOSES ONLY

H1355/20
Q) EGTT/QWULW/IV/BO/AW/000/016/5103N00114W001
A) EGHI
B) 2005060700 C) 2006301100
D) 0700-1100
E) UAS OPR WI 0.5NM RADIUS OF 510250N 0011357W (CHEESEFOOT HEAD,
HAMPSHIRE). MAX HGT 1000FT AGL. FOR INFO 07792 957849 OR 07578
940640. 2020-05-0156/AS2
F)SFC G)1600FT AMSL

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Next time you see somebody heading for you and you have some seconds to make a decision, you shouldn’t have to worry about airspace.

If they force you to take the GASCO course blah blah for saving you life, then switch your country.

ESME, ESMS

Upon an MOR received, the CAA guy will suspend my license first (the documented action, post-gasco) and then just leave me like that, until some process takes place…

They would be delighted if I left the UK because I would not be publishing stuff like this

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top