C210_Flyer wrote:
Witness the pushback Im getting from certain members in this group for a new style user fee at a German airport.
Well, I think everyone agrees with you that fees you mention are unreasonable. But maybe people also think that you should choose you battles wisely?
I think that the process of getting rid of GA from airfields by high landing/handling fees in Europe is well advanced already and will quickly continue. Airline traffic is growing in general (cheap lines), the easiest way to handle that growing traffic – is to get rid of something in excess, GA is the easiest target here, I am afraid…
There are no chances that anything will improve due to disputes with airport bodies etc. Maybe we see exceptions, but in general it will only be worse.
In my humble opinion the only way to try to fight with that is what RWY20 proposed, at the level of European Commission for Competition. In parallel I would file to national antimonopoly bodies and EASA department responsible for GA (they keep telling how important GA is, so why not).
What is needed? I think some lawyer knowing how and where to apply, bit of our work helping him to structure the arguments, than translation onto local languages (for national bodies).
Having that – quite a work with getting fellow pilots to start sending complaints, I think not only pilots may oppose the monopoly pricing for GA. Why not our passengers start sending that? I am sure flying schools would also be interested in helping in that effort. If we manage to get to numbers of thousands, with rational argumentation – we may succeed…?
I know, quite some work, the results distant and not at all sure. But If we do not do anything – soon we will be able to fly around “local grass”, nothing more…
This way to use consumer protection régulations seems a very good idea.
But isn’t the difference in landing fees btw US and Europe linked to their different fuel selling strategy.
In the US the FBO prices the fuel the way they like and that’s how they make a profit. If fuel was sold directly by the fuel company like in Europe, landing fees would be everywhere and significant.
So maybe the cost is juste hidden rather than offered by subsidies.
What do you think ?
I think AENA may have had a change of heart, at least at San Sebastian. The 61 handling fee effectively stopped us going there for the day. The 30 euro landing/parking/tax fee now seems quite reasonable in view of the airport quality and services.
Pau only charge 20 euros for a short stop and the airport brasserie is good value for money. The airport shop sells local produce at competitive prices, and there is also a good newstand (English and French press).
I have never paid anything at Pontoise (LFPT) and they have excellent facilities and a brasserie.
I haven’t been to Toulouse Blagnac for a long time but they used to offer a discount to local aeroclubs. Nice is considered exorbitant, but Cannes is not far away.
In France you can avoid being ripped off by handling charges if you choose wisely.
My hangar neighbour flies his RV8 regularly to the UK, files a GAR and flight plan, no fuss no muss.
Simon
Pau just gone up to 30 euros.
Simon
Well, let’s say San Sebastian or Pau examples are interesting in this plot… Of course there are airports that still apply some normal fees, of course there are places where competition from neighborhood fields work for good balance in prices.
But what about the airport being the only one within some 50 km, having enough CAT traffic not to care at all about GA (and increasing the prices so to get rid of GA in fact)? Shall we be flying somewhere else? Accept this situation by flying away?
simon32 wrote:
I have never paid anything at Pontoise (LFPT)
…until you get customs officers coming from Le Bourget to check who you are and subsequently receive a bill from Aeroports de Paris for all the landings you never paid. True story.
simon32 wrote:
and they (LFPT) have excellent facilities and a brasserie.
There used to be two “restaurants”
simon32 wrote:
I haven’t been to Toulouse Blagnac
I was there 2 years ago and according to my notes I paid around 35€ for landing and a few hours of parking with a DA40. I find it very good for a big airport.
However, both Toussus and Pontoise seem a bit weird. As far as I know: There is no way to pay when you are there. And you won’t automatically receive an invoice from them. It seems they expect YOU as the pilot to contact them after the flight and give them your details. Then, you will receive an invoice (rather steep, as far as parking is concerned). If you don’t, then you will never receive an invoice.
I find that a bit odd, to be honest.
I leave my details at the office under the tower, but have never received an invoice. I have never been there from outside France so don’t know about customs checks. When I was there this time last year, my cellphone rang shortly after landing. It was Blagnac ATC telling me I had busted their C airspace and could I give them an e-mail address for a fuller explanation. I was just told not to do it again, but they know perfectly well who I am from Mode S.
The Cigogne brasserie is open to non-members, but the other one closed some years ago. Pontoise is not served by public transport, but taxis come quickly and I noted on Drivy that there are plenty of people nearby who will rent you a car.
Simon
simon32 wrote:
I have never been there (LFPT) from outside France so don’t know about customs checks.
In the case I was referring to, the airplane is an N-reg based at LFPT since 2011 or so which flies quite a lot (rental). It landed after a domestic flight. Customs came to check the VAT status (IIRC). Shortly thereafter the owner received a huge bill for several years worth of landing fees.
