I had a total of 81 hours, from a 1964 PPL lapsed for over 20 years, and a 6 week old regained PPL when I got into IMC on my first trip to a Mull fly-in. In the Great Glen, at 900’ between Loch Lochy an Fort William, with the hills going to 3000’+ .
I did a 180 and retraced my track on instruments to Loch Lochy. My student pilot passenger ( almost a PPL) grabbed the mike, and warned the aircraft that was behind us. She then monitored my bank angle. We got clear of cloud,and after a few orbits, were able to continue to Glenforsa.
I gained an IMC, but let it lapse. For 14 years I’ve flown without an AI, and would never enter cloud. If I can’t see clearly at low level, I don’t continue. So far I haven’t had to make a precautionary landing, as opposed to diverting.
PS I’m current on uphill and beach landings.
Flight instructors can be very different in UK. If you’re lucky you get an old hardened IR holder as FI or you get one of these time builder who have gone through an ATPL factory.
The best way to teach flying on instruments is flying in solid IMC. No hood can simulate that.
When I did the conversion of my German pre-JAR PPL to an UK JAR PPL the FE demanded me to fly in solid cloud to show my 180. I honestly thought this is a joke, but he was serious and it took some convincing that this wasn’t a trap to fail me. In Germany this would have never happened. (IFR in G is still mostly forbidden).
I believe everybody should learn how to fly in IMC, safely. It is not difficult at all and as Tom said this self fulfilling “you die within 60 seconds” BS is what kills people.
I am reviving this thread because I found a video on the subject which demonstrates that the 178 s to live is not so far off. Even a pilot with 15 hrs under the hood ends up crashing demonstrating that the IMC rating leaves a little to be desired.
Even a pilot with 15 hrs under the hood ends up crashing demonstrating that the IMC rating leaves a little to be desired.
Or perhaps demonstrating that 15 hours “under the hood” in Canada, perhaps several years ago, isn’t quite the same as a current UK IMC rating. 
I’m sure that hundreds of IMC/IR(R) pilots fly thousands of hours a year in cloud without losing control. It’s a very useful privilege, even for those of us who only fly 20-30 hours a year in “solid” IMC.
you just have to practise it regularly. Leaves to find out if the average single IR pilot REALLY, at least in regular periods, disconnects the autopilot in IMC, or rather doesn’t, and relies on the autopilot instead (and slowly looses his control capabilities)…. Which is what I assume. Perhaps IR rated doesn’t automatically mean IR capable.
The IMCR pilot has the same issues as the IR pilot – as good as his currency, aircraft, equipment, etc.
One is that when flying in the European IFR system you have to be on autopilot 100% of the time because ATC is usually watching you like a hawk and will call you up if you deviate a bit. So hand-flying instrument practice needs to be done in Class G when nobody is watching you.
And the IMCR holder cannot generally fly IFR in CAS (because most relevant UK CAS is Class A) so he spends much of his IFR time in actual IMC, whereas the IR holder will climb to VMC on top as fast as possible and fly in sunshine.
You would also be amazed at how few hours the average IR holder does in a year. It costs serious money to do 100-200hrs.
you just have to practise it regularly. Leaves to find out if the average single IR pilot REALLY, at least in regular periods, disconnects the autopilot in IMC, or rather doesn’t, and relies on the autopilot instead (and slowly looses his control capabilities)…. Which is what I assume. Perhaps IR rated doesn’t automatically mean IR capable.
I consider that grossly exaggerated. Once you have a couple hundreds hours of handflown IMC and x years of experience, you don’t lose the skill that quickly, at least if you do it very occasionally. It is more like learning to ride the bicycle. It might not be perfect after a longer time of no IMC flying, but one will not “lose control” in normal situations. Partial panel etc. are different cases.
One issue is that when flying in the European IFR system you have to be on autopilot 100% of the time because ATC is usually watching you like a hawk and will call you up if you deviate a bit. So hand-flying instrument practice needs to be done in Class G when nobody is watching you.
Again, grossly exaggerated. In Germany, when IFR, when is always flying “at least” in airspace E. Especially during training, there regularly are quite some excursions. ATC doesn’t care about some course deviations. And even on altitude, they don’t care until plus or minus 300 feet are reached (by which time the instructor/safety pilot will chime in anyway). Maybe within the London TMA it’s a bit more strict, but then, that’s not a very good training environment.
boscomantico wrote:
I consider that grossly exaggerated.
Again, grossly exaggerated.
Thanks for helping to maintain a little reality.
In Germany, when IFR, when is always flying “at least” in airspace E.
I was responding to post 33 which is a UK-specific one, criticising the UK IMC Rating.
I would say that at T plus 1 year both holders are as good as their currency, and the only difference is the piece of paper they hold and their privileges.
Maybe within the London TMA it’s a bit more strict, but then, that’s not a very good training environment.
Exactly.
boscomantico wrote:
Once you have a couple hundreds hours of handflown IMC and x years of experience, you don’t lose the skill that quickly, at least if you do it very occasionally.
