I would be interested to know if there has been even one fine or prosecution (not a rumour) related to the “illegal” use of French within the past 10+ years.
Not one single guy in ICAO reg or in EASA reg, it’s mostly forum talks here and many other websites…
I think I heard one unverified story regarding an Italian ULM that looked plausible
The VAC charts from the SIA and part of the AIP say Fr.only or Fr. seulement
That does not mean.you.have to be French or that you.have to have some sort of qualification in French. It just means you have to make calls in French and expect to receive calls in French.This despite the fact that on a French licence it will probably have a section saying “niveau 6 français” mine actually says IFR niveau 6 en langue français.
Many years ago I saw a letter from DGAC Bordeaux saying you had to have French level 4 as a minimum. But in typical French fashion there was nowhere to get this and even if there was the licencing authority would have to agree to enter it in their licence..The French DGAC cannot do this.
I have spoken with several club Presidents at small fields and their attitude is “they should speak the best French they can”
I have never heard of anyone checked. I do know that Belgium tend to teach in English, so I would have thought they have ELP. But I have never known or heard of anyone being checked to prove they hold ELP.
I tend to agree with Chflyer, just do it especially if anyone on board has a reasonable standard of French. You should hear some.of the calls on 123.5.
I don’t think anyone has read the link I posted 
The problem isn’t prosecution. The (potential) problem is that you won’t be able to land, and if you land you may not be able to get back out of there.
Read the link. It was quite deliberate.
On another occassion, I filed a Eurocontrol IFR flight plan, out of LFBZ. A long time ago. I had some hacks but validated. ATC said it is not valid. I asked how. They would not say Why? I don’t know but perhaps they could not speak enough English to answer.
On another occassion, I was flying across the piece of France EGJJ-EGKA, VFR, ATC said “wrong level”. I asked how. They would not say. After a while I thought maybe they want semicircular level. So I said that. They said “correct” Why? I don’t know but perhaps they could not speak enough English to answer.
You have to speak enough French to not only speak it but also understand it, if going to these places. Otherwise somebody could just shaft you for a bit of fun, or to make a point about their rule, and their country.
In France, French is quite important, when it is expected. This isn’t say Croatia or Greece, where absolutely nobody expects you to learn their language.
As regards ELP4, a lot of French ATC is way below ELP4…
Did I write ELP4 I should have written FLP4.
I wonder how many have as many problems as @Peter does with French controllers. But the topic here was about flying into small Fr Only airports not International airfields like LFBZ.
But I suppose he could also be talking about LFPN and LFAT out of ATS hours.
as @Peter does with French controllers
You didn’t read the link I posted, either This is nothing to do with me. I just get picked on because I am an admin here, and of course almost nobody posts anything critical of their own country on an international forum. Personally, I can’t speak French so I stick to the “international circuit”.
Indeed, LFAT used to be FR-only during lunchtime; maybe still is.
I read the link. There is always someone with a story, and it’s always possible someone will try to make a point. But I wouldn’t let that stop me from going to a FR only field so long as my French is decent and I’m comfortable with the phraseology. The last bit is what caught me, but it’s not difficult and you can easily make a cheat sheet. Having said that, French controllers are most definitely the hardest to understand for me—sometimes comically so.
But I wouldn’t let that stop me from going to a FR only field so long as my French is decent and I’m comfortable with the phraseology
I agree with that.
There is also the practical aspect of flying somewhere and not understanding anything on the radio
French controllers are most definitely the hardest to understand for me—sometimes comically so.
Indeed, and I hear various stories from French people as to why that situation exists.
Basically British English speakers put stress on the first and last letter. Mouths are opened,lips used a great deal for stress.
French is much more like American English in that both the Americans and the French keep their lips closer together when speaking and is often more of a mumble or drawl rather than stressing sylables or letters. France draws from 72 different languages and many accents and Patois. Plus it’s basis is in more Latin than say the UK.
It is often much more difficult for the French to understand other French from a different part of the country. Think Geordie to Home Counties dweller or Texan to a New Yorker and multiply that by 2.
But one advantage of French is that letters and letter combinations are nearly always pronounced the same whereas in English they can be pronounced in different ways.
Eg.in English the hotel chain IBIS might be pronounced eyebis or ihbis whereas in French ot will always be eebeez.
I say nearly because in the PACA region, especially around Nice the word matin (morning) whilst pronounced mat an in most of France is pronounced mateen in Nice. The word demain (tomorrow) pronounce de man in most of France is demean in Nice.
In aviation there are some letters/words/syllables that we struggle with. Remembering it is not our first language and often not our second language either.
The hard Ch in Charlie is Sharlie in French.
Weight and height also cause a problem and end up as wait (ok) and hate (not ok ).
But if the difficulty of understanding is a major problem for safety one really should avoid these areas. Only a small percentage of French people would honestly say they were fluent English speakers in fact most will tell you they don’t speak it at all until you get to know them.
LFAT is FR only at lunchtimes, and indeed ATC have a few days off last month and so it was FR only when I was last there.
I have schoolboy French and a cheat-sheet, so no problem, but an English-speaker in an N reg was quite adamant he wasn’t going to make any attempt at French, which I find a little disappointing.
Winston wrote:
I have schoolboy French and a cheat-sheet, so no problem, but an English-speaker in an N reg was quite adamant he wasn’t going to make any attempt at French, which I find a little disappointing.
Yes we did have a laugh at your accent, please tell us again how you say Runway 13
