If you are in Class E in France, VFR under radar FIS, is a specific clearance through Class D necessary?
I ask this because sometimes I ask for the clearance and I get a Gallic Shrug and a “As I already said, you are cleared on that route” and other times I get a “you should not have entered XXX airspace without a clearance.”
What are the actual rules/standard procedures?
That’s a good one – unfortunately I don’t have the exact answer.
Obviously, very strictly speaking, a clearance is always explicitly required in order to enter a class D – see ENR 1.4 of the French AIP.
On the other hand, anyone who has flown VFR in France some knows what you are talking about. I guess it really comes down to common sense and constantly asking yourself the question “does the controller know/understand what I am going to do next?” If yes, just go on. If no, it’s better to ask “confirm we can proceed inbound to xy?”
As they hammered it into my head during IR training, if ATC uses the word ‘cleared’ (as opposed to ‘approved’), then you are indeed cleared to fly all the way to the clearance limit, regardless of airspace boundaries, handovers to other controllers, etc., and a clearance readback not only allows the controller to verify you got it correctly, but also gives you an extra chance to get your mind around where to start worrying about your next clearance.
France has a unified radar environment so ATC is quite relaxed. You just give them your route, ensuring that the fact you want to transit CAS is obvious from the waypoints you give them, and if they don’t want you going there there they will say so.
There are some exceptions, reportedly around busy places like Lyon, and the Paris TMA is a no-go below FL200/IFR. But during my VFR flights in France I never came across any such exceptions.
So they are not doing it correctly as per ICAO (all VFR in CAS needs an explicit clearance, which is absolutely the case in e.g. the UK) but they are happy…
>if ATC uses the word ‘cleared’ (as opposed to ‘approved’), then you are indeed cleared to fly all the way to the clearance limit, regardless of airspace boundaries, handovers to other controllers, etc
That is true on a Eurocontrol IFR flight plan, and on such a flight you also have the option of the ICAO Lost Comms Procedure (fly the filed route and land, in essence, all non-radio) but
Class E is “CAS” for VFR too even though de facto it isn’t… Anyway I would not expect a controller to issue a clearance to any VFR flight beyond his own patch, in any airspace class.
But if you are in CAS at the end of his patch, you are entitled to a handover and a continuation of the clearance, otherwise the situation is obviously nonsensical. I got that once in Italy, where the next controller refused the previous controller’s clearance while I was in CAS, and they all got a bit excited. I had to exit Italian airspace rapidly, and continued midway down the Adriatic.
Thank you. That all concurs with my experience, I was just wondering if I was missing something.
What other EASA states vary so much from ICAO?
I have been in trouble in Norway for doing a France (ie accepting that a radar FISO must have cleared me through Class D, when they hadn’t, but they hadn’t said anything.)
Bring on SERA, I say!
I’ve said it before and I will say it once again: SERA will change very little in terms of the various countries’ idiosyncrasies.
And this one is a good example. Why? Because in theory (= per the AIP) they are completely in accordance with the standard (i.e. clearance required for class D), but it’s just that in practice, things work slightly differently. How would a new regulatory framework change anything about that?
One of my pals, who has plenty of experience of VFR in France, once entered Deauville’s CAS on an ‘assumed’ clearance – as he had dozens of times before – and was made to turn back, leave CAS, and then ask for clearance, like a naughty schoolboy! I think it just depends on the controller’s mood that day.
Having considerably less experience, I always ask if I haven’t had an unequivocal clearance and am within 5 minutes of CAS. If that means I receive a slightly offended ‘but of course’ then so be it. There are enough examples of misunderstanding between UK pilots and French ATC, some with severe consequences, that I don’t mind the minor offence I might cause.
Even with these minor niggles, I would choose the level of service provided by French ATC over our own UK service without hesitation.
> If you are in Class E in France, VFR under radar FIS, is a specific clearance through Class D necessary?
If you are VFR in class E you don’t have to contact anyone. Then of course you need a clearance to enter a class D airspace.
If you contacted ATC when you entered the class E airspace (a good thing in my opinion), you must have stated your intentions. The answer will then include instructions such as “contact me when entering the D airspace” or contact me “when leaving my zones”.
All you need is to comply with these instructions.
Of course this works if the FIS you’re in contact with also issues clearances for the D airspace you want to enter. If it doesn’t, you have to quit the FIS frequency and contact the D airspace ATC to request a clearance. For exemple to go to Dinard LFRD the FIS is Rennes but the D airspace is Dinard TWR and you will have to contact them to get a clearance since there will be no handover.
