Good evening folks,
After placing a recent post on Facebook, Peter directed me to this forum:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/380851088752287/permalink/2099677080203004/
The TL;DR is that I am a currently undergoing IR(R) Training and I’ve become evermore concerned that the privileges that will be afforded to me on completion of the course aren’t going to be enough to achieve my goals.
Peter explained to me that the IR(R) (or IMC Rating as it is historically referred) provides little more privileges than VFR, not withstanding punching holes in clouds and being legally able to follow IAPs at the destination. When ideally what I really want is to be able to fly IFR in controlled airspace, which in the UK means being able to fly the Airways (Class A). The fact that the qualification isn’t valid anywhere except the UK is also a restrictive concern.
So my follow-on questions pertain to on-going options once qualified as an IR(R) pilot. I have a reasonable handle on what is required to upgrade to CBIR, however, due to other commitments, it is unlikely that I will be able to justify the time nor the expense for the upgrade.
Ideally the UK would adopt the BIR which doesn’t seem that much of a step-up in terms of financial costs or that of the additional time required. However, after speaking to someone ‘in the know’, the BIR is pretty much dead in the water in the UK. Does anyone know why this is?
What other options are there presently available to people in my situation?
Lee wrote:
Peter explained to me that the IR(R) (or IMC Rating as it is historically referred) provides little more privileges than VFR, not withstanding punching holes in clouds and being legally able to follow IAPs at the destination.
Not entirely correcy – IR(R) is worse than full IR in the following aspects:
- UK only
- minimum visibility is 1500m (vs 550m RVR for IR) and
- no class A (all other CAS is OK)
However, after speaking to someone ‘in the know’, the BIR is pretty much dead in the water in the UK. Does anyone know why this is?
I think unofficially people say that the training industry is not interested; please also keep in mind that BIR is sub-ICAO rating, so would be UK-only.
Lee wrote:
What other options are there presently available to people in my situation?
I’m afraid, CB-IR only, in that case.
Which could mean (after you’ve passed IR(R)):
- gain IMC time (real IMC or under the hood) as PIC
- do the the theory (£500 at CAPT) and pass the exams.
- do 10hr at ATO + test
FAA route is also mostly out of question (unless you travel to the US regularly).
Always worth checking the “Threads possibly related to this one” below, especially this one. Plenty of good stuff there.
Indeed, most people doing the IMCR know what it gives you on paper but as far as the flying tactics go the privileges are basically just flying an IAP in the UK and even that only if 1) it is actual IMC and b) if somebody wants to get you 
Anecdotally you are more likely to get a CAS transit (Class D) if you ask for an IFR transit than a VFR transit, but I can think of counter-examples.
The full IR is of course better and is usable abroad.
IME, the #1 challenge will be to find an FTO which is willing to do it in your on plane. And if you don’t have your own plane (or are in a very good syndicate) you won’t be able to do much with an IR… FTOs don’t generally like private pilots; they prefer the airline pilot cadets who drop 60-100k there and fit into the standard sausage machine. I did the JAA IR out of my base (Shoreham) in 2011 but that door opened and closed within a 1-2 year window… like so much in aviation! Even I had hassle with it; posting details might get me sued for libel because some crazy people are still alive. Today I would have to live in some sh1tty hotel in Bournemouth, probably…
I much recommend doing the IMCR because if properly taught and used, the flying standard is 100% same as the full IR. The stuff about min 500ft etc is just old codger BS (no regulation supporting it) and you should fly to the plate minima every time and only then go around. Then when you go and do the full IR you will already be very good.
Just a little note about the word “airways”. This is best avoided because in the UK it is used to scare PPL holders from even dreaming of entering Class A. And there are a few “airways” in Class D which is fully accessible on a PPL. What actually matters is the airspace class and e.g. in France the “lines on the map” are (FL065-FL115 generally) Class E which is fully accessible on a PPL. So always consider the airspace class only, not whether there are published routes in it.
IME, the #1 challenge will be to find an FTO which is willing to do it in your on plane
Most of my IR students were taught at the ATO in their own aircraft, typically C182 or PA28 or TB20, with a variety of avionics. Most were well equipped with good avionics. It meant they thoroughly understood what their navigator box could do and had standard procedures for common operations.
Some of my students do their IRR in their own aircraft which doesn’t require even a DTO*, just a qualified independent instructor. (*The IRR theory exam must be sat at a DTO or ATO.). Many just use the club PA28 which has fairly decent avionics.
I much recommend doing the IMCR because if properly taught and used, the flying standard is 100% same as the full IR.
I’d agree regarding IFR flying skills including flying approaches. In the UK, CBIR practical training involves flying IFR flight plans (typically not required for IRR flights), entry/exit into the airways system with London Control. The IR skill test requires a higher standard than the IRR. The UK IR test fee is now almost £1000.
Today I would have to live in some sh1tty hotel in Bournemouth, probably…
Flight training from Bournemouth no longer available. Both the flying club and commercial schools have closed down, which was done in a controlled and orderly manner rather than through bankruptcy.
Peter wrote:
to find an FTO
Not to nitpick, but to help people who may be new to this and want to look up a flight school or read the regs.
The “FTO” (Flight Training Organisation) term was dropped many years ago. Today the terms ATO (Approved Training Organisation) and DTO (Declared Training Organisation) are used. For IR training only ATOs are relevant,
My son has a 61.75 all done by zoom. Currently doing his IRR in our N reg aircraft with a freelance instructor On a planned trip to the US he will do the TSA stuff, ground exam, prob 10 -15 hours and then exam. In between the IRR and the FAA IR he will build IFR hours that will count towards the 50 for experience for the CAA conversion then do his exam in the UK for the CAA at Gamston. A bit of organisation but otherwise entirely doable and I imagine easier than straight CAA. The only thing he will be restricted on is uk airways once he has the FAA ticket until the CAA.
The only thing he will be restricted on is uk airways once he has the FAA ticket until the CAA.
??
He can fly the N-reg in UK Class D on the IMCR, on purely UK papers (FAR 61.3). here
The 61.75 is needed for flying abroad.
“Airways” can be any airspace class. D or A in the UK, E or D or A in France, etc.
For IR training only ATOs are relevant,
Lots of people use “FTO” to denote a school which does only the CPL/IR, airline cadet sausage machine route, and exceptionally will bend over to do a private IR.
@DavidC, if you run an IR FTO you should say which and where. It would help people and you would get business
I’d have to agree with @Airborne_Again that the term FTO is now generally deprecated.
In the UK at least, I’d further distinguish between “simple” and “complex” ATOs. The former have less onerous oversight but can offer IR and Flight Instructor courses. The latter provide CPL/IR and MPL mainly delivering new pilots for the airlines.
I am an instructor and don’t own a flight school. I regularly instruct at Bristol Aero Club, a DTO based at Gloucester EGBJ, for PPL, night, IRR. We are one of the few clubs with aircraft equipped with hand controls for disabled pilots.
I also instruct in student’s own aircraft for IRR and CBIR, both independently and through Rate One Aviation also based at Gloucester. Typically this is scheduled on a full day basis.
I supplement airborne instruction with remote zoom sessions, including use of students own home simulators, which can make the airborne time more effective.
I was referring to class A which is what I think of when I say airways, as in actual airways as in L602, not airspace.
