Pilot_DAR wrote:
This describes what I do and teach. I only minimally rely on power for glidepath control, as engines have been known to fail. I prefer more steep approaches, modulated by slipping if needed. If you’ve crossed the fence at the correct speed and height, and close the throttle, pausing over the runway (as opposed to forcing it on in a rush) is helpful. I pause, and allow the plane to slow in the wheel landing attitude I choose, it will settle on, as it slows with no further attitude change. Once the mains are on, I gently move the stick forward to lift the tail. Occasionally, the tail wheel might slightly touch, so I will lift it off. I continue to move the stick forward to the stop, until the tailwheel settles on gently. I do not apply the brakes until the tailwheel is on, and I can apply nose up elevator to oppose the braking forces.I choose to wheel land all taildraggers I fly. I reserve a three point landing for an emergency procedure into a very small landing area if ever needed.
All nice and correct. IF the runway at disposal is sized like most are on the other side of the pond…
I do like to visit UL places in Italy and France. Aiming my steed for an over the fence IAS of 60kts (top of the green on my AOA), I sure don’t have the space to feel for the runway, wag the tail up and down, pause et all, all whilst not running off a 300m or shorter strip…
Dan wrote:
wag the tail up and down
Ooo, I don’t do that, it’ll get you in trouble!
If you’re landing into an unusually short runway, as I mentioned, the three point landing is the better choice to achieve a shorter ground roll. That said, when I used to fly the Tiger Moth in and out of a 300M runway, it was still wheel landings, on both wheels or skis, as the plane did not have a tailwheel! When I fly Cubs in and out of short runways, I’m still content to wheel land them. If the runway is so short I’m rethinking a wheel landing, I’m rethinking landing there at all.
Dan wrote:
whilst not running off a 300m or shorter strip…
Yes, my comments were predicated on have sufficient runway (or waterway), with a view to making repeatable nice normal landings. If the approach speed is correct, these won’t be ‘long’ landings – in most cases they should be reasonably short.
A discussion of the shortest possible landing is something else entirely 
. Given that the only tailwheels I have landed are Champs and Super Cubs, the landing distances were pretty short without trying very hard 
.
I gather that your experience, e.g. with an RV into a short strip, might be a bit different, but feel free to describe how you would do it. I have put a PA28 into some short grass strips, and for that I was very focussed on having just the right approach speed for the given weight (with much practice). Slow enough that I might have required a little blip of the throttle in the flare, but fast enough that it wasn’t at risk of an approach stall. It has been a long time, but I do recall that I probably just aimed for a nice smooth flare rather than two part process of level off then flare. Of course you are not going to land short if you fly down a third of the runway ‘feeling’ for the ground .
Graham wrote:
Assuming a simple aircraft with no flaps, if you want to fly your approach at a given speed and a given rate of descent then the pitch angle only has one possible value, yes?
It depends on the throttle setting also. A cub climbs at 70, cruises at 70 and descends at 70 There are other ways of doing it, but it certainly can be flown that way. Then there is side slip.
, if you want to fly your approach at a given speed and a given rate of descent then the pitch angle only has one possible value, yes?
For a given load configuration, yes.
Not being a mathematician, and putting aside the fact that as a pilot we tend to do most descents to landing by instinct these days, I have been trying to get my head around this question.
Let’s say your given final approach is 70knots on the ASI your given descent rate would be circa 350ft per minute in a no wind scenario and depending on the weight of the aircraft the pitch would be around – 3°. But that is -3° from the pitch attitude of the aircraft in its stable, downwind, setting eg in your downwind configuration, at your given approach speed, which let’s say is a +2° pitch then your final approach pitch would be -1° on your AI.
If you have a headwind of say 20knots on final, your IAS (if you don’t augment it) your given speed is 50 Knots, giving a descent rate of 250ft a minute. So if you want to maintain the given 350ft per minute descent rate you have to change the pitch to – another couple of degrees. Of course by doing that you’ll come up short of the runway unless you add speed or.make the given speed your ground speed.
Great question Graham, really makes you think.
My head hurts and its started to rain so I won’t be flying the DA40 today.🙃
Oh crikey @gallois, the headwind, I’d not thought of that!
Let’s assume nil wind.
We might modify the question slightly to better address the point I was trying to get at. Let’s say we’re not actually trying to land, let’s say the objective is an indefinite hold-off – we want to fly down the length of the runway close to landing speed and 2-3 feet above the surface.
On the first run we do it in the three-point attitude. For the second run we do it in the level flight attitude. The second run must necessarily be at a higher indicated airspeed than the first run, no?
My thinking:
Someone will mention ground effect shortly….
On an ILS you would try and visualise how the wind is changing on the glide slope (in the northern hemisphere predominantly backing and slacking), and make subtle changes to pitch. Most straight wing aircraft with approach flaps will fly a 3 degree glide slope at 100 KIAS with approximately 3 1/2 degree pitch below the horizon. If there is a headwind you might shallow the pitch by 1/2 to one degree, and vice versa for a tailwind component. Some approaches are more than 3 degrees and you can probably adjust pitch proportionally, eg 4 1/2 degrees for a 3 1/2 degree slope.
RobertL18C wrote:
If there is a headwind you might shallow the pitch by 1/2 to one degree
I found -2.5deg to be universal on typical headwind on a standard ILS while on short final on slightly faster speeds (with gear down and T/O partial flaps for go-missed) and indeed, generally things sits in -3.5deg to -2.5deg range
Just an overall observation, it may change with config or non-standard ILS: like stalling power-off on approach, flying steep glide paths, full flaps with full power, 60kts headwinds.
