Hey All,
I fly an SR22T from Biggin and obtained my IR earlier this year. I am planning a trip with the Mrs and our 2 and a bit year old next week and curious if others have much experience / advice regarding flying with little ones. We have been on one short flight (well 2 if you count the return!) which was about 45 mins each way but was flown low level VFR about 1 year ago.
Am I mad to consider a water crossing (thinking of going to Jersey) although also considering Belgium/somewhere else that direction. Of course, could also keep it in the UK but i’d love to take the family abroad somewhere.
For the flight last year we used ear defenders designed for infants and our daughter had a little snack around take off each time and basically slept the whole way and way back – i think there is a good chance of this happening again.
Concerns/mitigations
- Taking her headset off – I’ve just bought a children’s headset this time to use instead of ear defenders and it also comes with a headphone jack – so could put music into that. We are trying to avoid iPads/screens in general for her for now although this would no doubt be a very easy distraction. I think even music in her ears might help. Also my other half would sit in the back (W&B is OK). We also have recently had her put the headset on at home but she tends to remove it quite quickly. Thinking maybe a car journey with Mrs in the back and seeing if she will keep the headset on for a bit – i suppose the noise might make her want to keep it on too in the plane!
- Water crossing – ditching – likely would be under the parachute in the plane so hopefully not as powerful as if it were a more conventional ditching. I’ve also just bought a GA life vest designed for little ones and both parents would have life vests and we’d have a raft. Of course the lower risk option is to stay over land or east across the channel to minimise over water time. My other half swam the channel for fun before so is a very capable swimmer which is also reassuring.
If we do a longer crossing having a ditching plan is a must – initial thoughts are – life vests for all, raft on front seat, doors open before landing. Then either I get out first with the raft or Mrs unbuckles the little one, passes to me to the front and Mrs get’s out with the raft.
- I would plan on not going too high, maybe 7/8k feet for o2 reasons, i think that is best for toddler’s and of course keeping descent at around 500fpm.
Any thoughts/feedback/advice welcome.
Cheers
Hi Al,
You seem to have a good plan already.
I only took my 11mo boy on a local flight (with a headset) and he slept 95% of the flight. He didn’t try to remove it.
My 2yo niece did a trip (1h30 each way) and same result (with no ear protection, don’t yell at me, I wasn’t there).
All in all, a sleeping kid won’t remove a headset.
Stick to what you planned, brief your wife (ie watch videos of raft deployment), pick a beautiful day and destination, and enjoy a nice day out 
Al_Kee wrote:
Then either I get out first with the raft or Mrs unbuckles the little one, passes to me to the front and Mrs get’s out with the raft.
I thought this through dozens of times but I always came to the conclusion that in practice this will only be possible in extremely calm conditions. If anything doesn’t go exactly according to plan there will be only two survivors. I think the chances of survival for all POB equal pretty much the chance that no ditching is required. With only one, maybe even trained, occupant per door the risk will be lower, but with passengers who need assistance and in normal wind conditions, I doubt it.
Clipperstorch wrote:
I thought this through dozens of times but I always came to the conclusion that in practice this will only be possible in extremely calm conditions. If anything doesn’t go exactly according to plan there will be only two survivors. I think the chances of survival for all POB equal pretty much the chance that no ditching is required. With only one, maybe even trained, occupant per door the risk will be lower, but with passengers who need assistance and in normal wind conditions, I doubt it.
You should compare the additional risk of ditching with the risk you always have with engine failures even over land. It is not at all certain that forced landing will be successful. If flying over large forests (maybe not so common in the UK, but certainly here up north) I would most of the time prefer ditching in a lake to going down into the trees. Of course, with a parachute the risk assessment will be different.
Plenty of old threads here around.
Personally, as I knew that I’d be flying a lot with my kids, I checked for a plane with good soundproofing, so I have not much to help with headsets. We only need them during climb. On cruise I reduce to 2000 rpm and we all fly without headsets (use mine only in case ATC comm gets challenging) in an ok-ish environment.
Regarding descents, please take that very seriously. Ask the kids every 2k feet whether the ears hurt and give them something to drink or chew. I make descents with 250-300 fpm exactly for this reason and we are quite cautious on that.
A friend from my club had one of his kids with a crack in the eardrum and I took his advice.
Al_Kee wrote:
Taking her headset off – I’ve just bought a children’s headset this time to use instead of ear defenders and it also comes with a headphone jack – so could put music into that. We are trying to avoid iPads/screens in general for her for now although this would no doubt be a very easy distraction.
I recently took my son (3 1/2 years old) for his 1st ride. For what it’s worth, here my observations and lessons learned from the experience.
- I had my partner sit in the back with him; we did not want him to be alone in the back in case he’d be scared. Beware of W&B, you might need to bring another adult in the front to stay within limits.
- My son hated the headset. I believe he thought the noise came from the headset (the 253 is a loud aircraft). He kept pulling it off and closing his ears with his hands. I wanted to turn back and land, my partner urged me to fly at least 10-15 minutes (she was enjoying it!) About that time into the flight, he fell asleep, so she put the headset back on his hears for protection. (Good thing she was sitting in the back!) We’ll practice wearing the headset at home, and also speaking into it.
- I forgot to take a cushion. He might have seen more out of the window with one. For this reason, I am not sure he fully realized what “flying” means…
- All my efforts were directed toward my partner feeling good in the airplane. This was only her 2nd flight in a GA aircraft, the 1st being about 10 years ago. I therefore completely forgot about my son (my bad). I should have put as much effort (if not more) preparing my son about flying, e.g explaining the aircraft, the view out of the window, the noise, why we wear headsets, how to speak into the microphone, etc.
- one thing I was adamant before we reached the airfield: I taught him several times NOT to run on the airfield, be careful about aircraft and PARTICULARLY about propellers, do not walk into propellers, etc. He’s well trained on street behaviour (we live in a downtown area), I wanted him to make the connection that airplanes can be as dangerous as cars, busses, trains etc.
- After the flight we discussed flying to our next vacation early September, instead of going by car (a 1000km ride.) We decided against it. I will take a few more short flights with my son, and engage on a long trip when he’s fully comfortable in the aircraft.
- No experience with music/stories etc in airplane, but for long car rides this indeed helps. Like you we limit screen time to an absolute minimum (not always easy). We never use ipads in the car with him, only audio stories. It’s sufficient I think.
Happy traveling with your little one :)
I’ve flown many times with my kids and I have little to add to all that has been said. From what I read you thought it all through. Especially the first flights I was a bit nervous about it, but that goes away. Fly to a nice place and enjoy it!
I’m probably more conservative that most here on such matters. I’m a nervous cross water flyer anyway.
I waited until my daughter was five until brining her flying (I wanted to do it at 4, but that didn’t happen). Plenty of “practice” at home with the headset meant that she was comfortable with it. She was also old enough to be excited about going flying and to appreciate what was happening.
But even now, I’m conscious about brining her cross water. I think (and it’s purely my own instinct rather than knowledge based on any particular facts or statistics) that she would be unlikely to survive a ditching. The idea of being able to do anything calm when you’ve just survived a landing on water, then getting freezing cold water on you, the aircraft filling up, and having lots to do, makes me think that even getting a young child to listen to you telling them what to do, is very unlikely. Many people never make it into the raft, never mind being able to hand a child in. Or course coming down under a chute might help.
And I think if the reason for brining her on a cross water flight is because “I want” to bring her on a nice trip, when in fact she would enjoy a nice over land flight to the beach for ice cream just as much, then I shouldn’t be exposing her to the additional risk for my own benefit. But of course the same argument could be made for me bringing her flying at all, and I’m doing that! So maybe not totally rational!
But I do think Clipperstorch is correct when he says “I think the chances of survival for all POB equal pretty much the chance that no ditching is required.”
In other words, the chance that you all have a nice day and everything goes well is very high. But if it doesn’t work out, the consequences are likely to be very bad.
I’m more conservative about flying with children than most on here, and you’re the child’s parent, so it’s your choice to make. We can’t keep our children free from every risk. So we have to choose which ones we accept for them and which not.
@dublinpilot great post and I agree with all of it. I don’t believe that children too small to take responsibility for their own physical safety and life rafts are a combination that will ever end well.
Today I’m going to take my godson flying for the first time – he is 3 and a half. His mother will be in the back with him, and his father (who is doing his PPL – albeit slowly, he doesn’t get much free time) will be in the front with me. We will bring plenty of cushions so he can see out, and a very good point from @etn about them thinking the noise comes from the headset….. how to solve this…. maybe start up without the headset on, thus showing that the headset makes it quieter?
Anyway, it will only be a short 20 minute hop – bring them to stay with us for the weekend and even if he gets a bit tetchy it beats (for them) 1hr+ sat in bank holiday traffic where he is equally likely to get tetchy.
Maybe my 11mo was too young to remove his headset, or maybe he’s an anomaly.
Interesting note on no-headset flying from udo.
I would concur on the very high risk in case of ditching in a high-wing or one-door aircraft. The channel water is at 17-20°C at the moment.
But the OP:
From 7-8k feet, crossing the channel over Dover, you won’t be unable to reach land for a long time.
YMMV.
