Peter wrote:
That’s exactly what I am getting at. You need ELP on the license.But that is not an ELP (English Language Proficiency)!
You’re talking about the English R/T entry. Two separate things. EASA licenses have their radio telephony privileges mentioned under section XII, while language proficiency is mentioned under Remarks (section XIII).
Fair enough, but how do you get the English R/T entry without having ELP4?
In most of European countries, you obtain an R/T during a radio telephony exam, which checks your phraseology skills with ATC. In Germany, this is the famous “BZF”, in Austria “BFZ”, in Switzerland “Voice RTF”, in the Netherlands “radio telefonie certificaat” etc. This is however a completely separate process, compared to the language proficiency test.
A language proficiency test is not about talking with ATC, but how good your English listening, comprehension and speaking skills are in general. This is mostly done at a later state during flight training, when even done at all. (Especially in Germany, there are lots of pilots how don’t do the ELP test.) In some countries, like Switzerland, authorities offer a language proficiency test right after the RT test, but this is not default and not mandatory. I know a bunch of people, how obtained their ELP after a few years of flying with a license, while they already did get their R/T during flight training.
No Peter R/T and ELP are totally different.
Here you tend to get your R/T licence during your training an follow up flight test. You don’t really notice you are getting it because you talk on the radio. If you were not to talk in the radio during the test they would not stamp in your licence as I mine “Radiotelephonie in langue Francaise”
When we went to EASA this remained in my licence along with another stamp/para saying French language proficiency level6 VFR. Later was added French language proficiency IFR. Then after taking FCL055 it added English Language Proficiency Level 6 VFR and because I did it at the same time English language proficiency level6 IFR.
This I admit was 2nd time around as I only got level 5 the first time.🙂
For sure two different things. R/T could also be a requirement (usually is, I would think) by the “national radio transmitting bureau” to legally use a radio of any kind. I recently talked to an old examiner. When he got his CPL, he had to get a maritime R/T, because there were no separate aviation R/T back then then (must be in the late 60s or early 70s). It was the normal thing. I think you can still use a maritime R/T also for aviation.
The ELP is (besides nonsense 
) a requirement for aviation only and is an entirely separate thing from the R/T.
The way it works here is
The student will normally experience only the first. The second and third are usually done by the examiner. I did have one a few weeks ago. He needed both 2 and 3, and took it separately in the office at an examiner.
Just to chime in, I agree with everyone who says that the (E)LP and the R/T license are different things. They are!
Sure they are but that’s a different issue to the border crossing one
So the question regarding border crossing would be: Do you need radio contact with ATC in order to cross the border?
I think that is not handled the same by all countries, but rather individually. VFR flights rarely have radio contact with anyone or if at all with Information. I think some countries (Italy? France?) demand it, others (Germany?, Austria? ) don’t.
If you have to talk to somebody, you need RT/LP in the language you are talking. If not, I would not see what can make RT/LP compulsory for border crossing.
Having always had ELP and RT I never had this issue…
If you have to talk to somebody, you need RT/LP in the language you are talking.
Nope. For LP, it is either English or the language used. FCL.055 refers.
