You are right Peter things just work and the old phrase “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” comes to mind.
But we have already seen how regulators use airspace sometimes totally wrongly.
The DAs off the south coast of England are quasi RAs and that does have an effect on flying in this area.
Here you fly over a zone marked at the moment as an area where you may disturb others, especially if you fly a loud aircraft.
So take the little villages of Fontaine and Mareuil which are at the beginning or end of the downwind leg, depending on runway in use, here at LFFK. During our training here we try to avoid flying directly over the village, it is the neighbourly and responsible thing to do. We take care to do so by a slight detour which cuts through the space between the 2 villages. It possibly adds about 200 metres if that to the circuit distance. You don’t need a map to do so you can see the gap. If someone does actually fly a little too near one of the villages especially in a noisy aircraft when residents are enjoying their garden you might get a complaint or the mayors office does. In turn the complaint is passed to the aeroclub president who sends an apology to the resident and possibly sticks a note up in the club reminding everyone to try not to fly over the villages. Generally speaking it all happens quickly and everyone is happy.
We are lucky we don’t get too many complaints unless there is a week or 2 of aerobatics either on the airfield or by the military whose RA starts at 3000ft.
Other airfields with more traffic have been forced to put blue circles around the villages. Again flying over might well cause complaints but the pilot has not committed an infraction. S/he has “just” upset some people who have in turn made complaints and if it keeps happening want something done about it.
This is the norm except at LFPN where to transgress one of the blue circles almost immediately means a call from the DSAC North and a request to write a return on experience or in some cases a CRESAG.
There is a lot of fight back against the DSAC North’s attitude regarding this. Believing it to be too strong arm considering it is not an RA.
Now if all these areas, which as is likely under the new regulation, will eventually become RAs. The 2 villages on the downwind of LFFK will.probably be joined as one RA and one will have to make a further detour. Not only that but if you inadvertantly enter one of these areas you have now committed an infringement and all that entails.
But does it stop there. LeSving might be right. Why would they be RAs? Most RAs can be flown through with permission. But the RAs you would be creating here would basically be impenetrable to ga. In which case, surely they should be PAs not RAs and inadvertantly penetrating one of them in France attracts serious consequences from the air police.
And do remember action for not avoiding overflying a viilage as at present is triggered by a complaint.
Whereas infringing an RA without permission will be seen on radar and could (I put it no stronger than that ) automatically trigger an action within the ATS.
The law of inadvertant consequences.
gallois wrote:
Now if all these areas, which as is likely under the new regulation, will eventually become RAs.
I don’t at all understand why that is likely.
Again, the whole of the new regulation (well, AMC actually) is “A prohibited area or restricted area is duly published only when it is published in the aeronautical information publication (AIP) of the responsible Member State and, when necessary, a relevant NOTAM has been issued in this respect.”
The rationale (which quoted in my very first post) talks about "adoption of measures by the responsible administration services of a State, which intend to prohibit or restrict aircraft flight "
The blue circles you are talking about are not the result of “measures by the responsible administration services of a State”, are they?
The blue circles you are talking about are not the result of “measures by the responsible administration services of a State”, are they?
Well someone put them in the AIP and DSAC North which is the DGAC department responsible for Toussus Le Noble LFPN seem.to be the enforcing body.
DSAC = Intertegional Directorate for Civil Aviation Safety.
Airborne_Again wrote:
I don’t see where the nuisance and confusion comes in. On the contrary, this makes it crystal clear for everyone what rules apply.
Perhaps, but:
Airborne_Again wrote:
National Park. Special permission by Swedish Transport Agency is required, except – [lots of bla bla bla]
In Norway you can multiply that with 1000 approximately, because each restricted area has it’s own separate regulation/law, and there are lots of them, perhaps more than 1000 for all I know. They are called protected areas. Some are national parks, others are not, but equally protected. Some have 300 mAGL limit, others only have restriction for landing only. The basic principle according to the law is flying below 300 m is prohibited (for the places where it is prohibited). In general it is 100% prohibited. Then there are exceptions, and they are not general in nature. They vary from area to area, and within areas they may vary depending on date.
Thinking about it now, the way it works today is just fine. Good enough for Skydemon to figure out. If all that information is to be inserted somehow into the AIP, who will benefit from that? What use would this be for the GA pilot? 99% of those flying in Norway are Norwegian, and we know how this works (more or less 
). The intension is good, but in practice it will be a true PITA for everyone, benefitting no one. It works well today.
According to ICAO (I think, just googled)
Prohibited area:
Airspace designated within which no person
may operate an aircraft without permission
of the using agency.
Designated when necessary to prohibit
flight over an area on the surface in the
interest of national security/welfare.
Restricted area:
Airspace designated
wherein flight, while not
wholly prohibited, is
subject to restriction.
Designated when
necessary to confine or
segregate activities
considered hazardous to
nonparticipating aircraft.
Restricted, prohibited, danger – These areas are none of those. They are protected areas, and as such are per default prohibited, but with varying strings attached. Those strings are way out of the jurisdiction of LT, even outside of reach of the military in most cases (in peace time at least). Not to speak of EASA which is way out of any legal jurisdiction whatsoever in this matter.
Good intensions. But, will it ever be implemented in Norway? Not in any conceivable future IMO due to several reasons.
