PapaPapa wrote:
Actually… I believe the consensus is “no evil seen, no evil done” which is very different !
PapaPapa, can you share a document (FCL, French air law) that explicitly states that you need a French LP th use French R/T? I am very interested, because I could be illegal to speak French in France.
Actually I just was subject to a ramp check in Besançon. The Gendarmes heard me speak first English then French on the radio. They did not say a word about LP.
PapaPapa wrote:
But again their splitting VFR/ IFR is really BS
Actually, that is in accordance with the regulations. It might not be called VFR and IFR there, but there are additional requirements for IR/ EIR holders, IIRC. Which implies two “levels” of examination, one for IR/ EIR holders and one for the rest. The first one can include the second one.
French langue has no place in aviation, in 1944 ICAO decided that English was to be the international language of the air and the rest of the world has no problems with this.
Numerous inccidents and a few accidents have resulted from the loss of situational awareness due to dual language operation in France and on air safety grounds alone this practice should stop, some might suggest that the French failing to comply with ICAO standard I’d just the last gasps of a dieing language ……….. Viva Le weekend !
A_and_C wrote:
the French failing to comply with ICAO standard
But they don’t.
ICAO Annex 10 states
5.2.1.2 Language to be used
5.2.1.2.1 The air-ground radiotelephony communications shall be conducted in the language normally used by the station on the ground or in the English language.
Note 1.— The language normally used by the station on the ground may not necessarily be the language of the State in which it is located. A common language may be agreed upon regionally as a requirement for stations on the ground in that region.
Note 2.— The level of language proficiency required for aeronautical radiotelephony communications is specified in the Appendix to Annex 1.
5.2.1.2.2 The English language shall be available, on request from any aircraft station, at all stations on the ground serving designated airports and routes used by international air services
@A&C: are you aware that everything that happens to French today will happen to Rusian tomorrow? This is (not so surprisingly) another domain where Paris and Moscow are natural allies.
PapaPapa wrote:
The stupidity of the test also lies in the fact that you have to translate some French !!
That is the same elsewhere, too. It can be a paradox where you prepare for English exam by studying some other language (you might not be familiar with the terminology even in your mother tongue).
Aviathor wrote:
PapaPapa, can you share a document (FCL, French air law) that explicitly states that you need a French LP th use French R/T? I am very interested, because I could be illegal to speak French in France.
Well, I think the regulation is quite clear (1). When the destination is FR only, you need the language or you can’t fly (FCL.055(a) I believe). The funny (well, not so funny) thing is the regulation states that there shall be level and validity period on the licence for that language as well. And that could be a problem since there are NAAs that put that information only for English, not the local official language. And I have seen some other bizarre things.
(1) Well, there is an interpretation basically saying that having English on a licence allows you to speak whatever language you want. I think it’s a daft notion and I doubt that’s the intended meaning.
@Martin: I think nobody argues that, if the Carte VAC says “FR seulement” one needs to have French, both speaking and understanding. The question is, does one need to produce formal proof of sufficient knowledge of Molières language. And if so, with what document, and how to acquire it.
In all other threads on this topic on EuroGA, noone has ever managed to come up with a text that explicitly states that you need French LP in your license to legally use FR R/T, and on top of that several have reported that the NAA (other than FR) refuse to enter other LP than that of the country and English.
A_and_C wrote:
French langue has no place in aviation
That’s nonsense. You don’t have to learn English unless you want to fly abroad. ICAO doesn’t have a problem with that, it’s normal practice in all (well, at least many) non-English speaking countries. Even then you could just learn the needed language(s). And official languages have place in military aviation. English is there only as a common default so you don’t have to learn a whole bunch of languages. And even then it’s aimed at CAT-like international movements. If you want to explore backcountry airfields, I don’t think ICAO has an issue with them not speaking English. And here we’re talking about self announcing, unless I’m mistaken. If the AIP says it’s FR only, it’s FR only.
ICAO also decided that metric units should be the primary and look at us using feet and knots. A bad joke and a soft spot of mine.
@Aviathor: yes, agreed on both points. Yet I seem to remember some forum post about the DGAC or some other authority issueing a separate document confirming French Language Proficiency? Not sure where I saw it though, perhaps on this forum, perhaps elsewhere. And perhaps, even if such a document does exist, it is only for professional pilots?
@Martin: fully agree regarding language. Any country/culture with the slightest bit of self-respect will naturally use local language.
