Not so much in these parts, although in some quarters they’d like it that way.
One of the things I enjoyed about my main flight training period was that with the exception of a handheld radio and the extremely busy airspace environment, it ‘was’ 1946 in my 1946 trainer as I learned how to fly, not 2002. My instructor disliked nonsense, while also being a commercial rated multi-engine instrument tailwheel pilot with 4000 hours by that time (in his early 30s) as well as an A&P IA.
The first lesson was safe hand propping, the second was taxiing with simulated ground loops and recoveries. Flying followed, having already seen that it is serious business and that the plane is not a car. God help me if I were to start up with the prop blast directed towards parked planes, and if I e.g. skidded a turn (especially) or attempted to climb in anything but perfect balance, he was not amused. He also liked to mumble and ask me searching questions unrelated to flying as I was entering base leg, and the expected PIC response from me (STFU, or words to that effect) garnered a smile from him. No collared shirts never mind silly stripes, and no BS 
Just emphasis on things that matter in stopping an individual adult student from killing himself, as opposed to being a good follower. And sure enough when I took the Practical with a guy who I understood was Carl Icahn’s chief pilot at that time, a very different kind of flying, that was regardless what he was looking for: “Killer Items”, as he explained it.
The experience spoke volumes to me about the difference between meaningful and extant flying culture and school “culture” in the ethereal 21st century nonsensical business-blab sense.
With instructors I think it all depends on whether s/he wants to instruct and pass on their knowledge to others or whether they just want to build hours whilst waiting to, hopefully, get a job in the airline industry.
As for common sense, yes that seems to have disappeared back in the 80’s when people started to not take responsibilty for their actions.
TEM is possibly aviation’s way of trying to get back to a time when they did.
How many times do you hear “well no one told me I needed to do that” “no one told me I should check that there was enough fuel in plane” “no one told me not to fly through a CB” etc etc🙃
172driver wrote:
Graham wrote: Does one really need a safety management system to prevent carrying things such that they obstruct the controls?How about trying something called ‘common sense’?
@172driver, I think part of the problem is that people are too preoccupied with solving some problem (get somewhere, bring something from A to B, etc), that they do not see the bigger picture – just don’t get into that situation! Do not try to get there, as the weather is too bad, etc. People need to be able to take a step back and see the bigger picture, and I think not everyone can. So the good safety system should be able to help those people, especially people in the commercial environment.
arj1 wrote:
People need to be able to take a step back and see the bigger picture, and I think not everyone can. So the good safety system should be able to help those people, especially people in the commercial environment.
Certainly not everyone can. Maybe a safety system should be there to help them, or an alternative viewpoint would be that someone who can’t see that the below is totally suicidal shouldn’t be allowed in charge of an aeroplane?
The problem is, these guys are the system. They had the required post holders under the CAA’s regulations and the required documentation. They had an Operations Manual, which prohibited the carriage of dangerous goods and cargo. They flouted that rule, apparently routinely. One would hope the CAA has now shut them down and sanctioned the individuals who presided over this, but I doubt it. The report is littered with little smoking guns that tell you all you need to know about the operation – bits of paper that should have been available to the investigation going missing, management denying their acceptance of software being used for W&B, a laughable sham internal ‘investigation’ into the cause, multiple rapid changes of management personnel, etc.
That sort of stuff doesn’t happen because regulations are insufficiently enforced or not restrictive enough, it happens because of the attitudes of the people running the show. Although it’s not safety or aviation related, right now at work I’m having to deal with people in positions of responsibility who believe that what’s written in a process document is more important than what people are actually doing. It’s very frustrating.
The report goes off into irrelevance about the exact nature of the de-icing fluid with the obvious intention of giving them a possible (though tenuous) ‘out’ via the suggestion that perhaps there was some uncertainty over whether it was actually prohibited. How flammable it is and what codes are used to describe it aren’t relevant to what happened – what’s relevant is that it’s a really bad idea to carry five containers of that size and weight inside the passenger compartment of a relatively small four-seat aircraft under any circumstances, and becomes absolute lunacy when you elect to jam one of them into the gap between the front seat and the panel.
Graham wrote:
someone who can’t see that the below is totally suicidal shouldn’t be allowed in charge of an aeroplane
Jesus!!
That sort of stuff doesn’t happen because regulations are insufficiently enforced or not restrictive enough, it happens because of the attitudes of the people running the show.
Amen! And since these regulations apparently don’t help, they are a PITA for the people who do care.
The problem is sometimes an excessive collection of overly prescriptive regulations and procedures can bring on a lack of respect for regulations and procedures (including the sensible ones), and then the normalisation of deviance follows as night follows day.
The AAIB bikeshedding about the deicing fluid certainly reduces respect for that esteemed organisation, too!
alioth wrote:
and then the normalisation of deviance follows as night follows day.
Exactly. I remember when I still lived in the UK there was a phenomenon on big constructions sites (which I occasionally had to visit) called ‘yellow blindness’. There were so many guys in hi-viz vests around that nobody actually took any notice of them anymore.
