Great report!
There is some amazing scenery in the Pyrenees. I have done that a few times; once with a “pro” photographer and he was working flat out 
However, very few forced landing opportunities compared to the Alps which apart from the central “spine” have loads of flat-bottomed canyons.
Vieke wrote:
EBLG offered us to descent in their CTR for separation and we got cleared when we were ready for descent. Because we have a good AP, we did a stable descent with 500ft/min on the AP although there was one hole in the clouds we could have used.
In the German scene you would get tarred and feathered for posting this. Not allowed for VFR, dangerous, stupid etc. but the opposite is true. It is the right thing to do and it is safe and being prepared and qualified to do it is a prerequisite for VFR on top over a longer distance (read “unclear and changing weather”). Trying to do an aerobatic manoever through some small hole while desperately trying to remain VMC is dangerous because that can get you IMC in an attitude you don’t want to be in. A safe, planned and controlled descent to a known situation (weather report of the control zone) is the way to go.
It is safe if you know how to do it, but unfortunately in Germany we were trained in an atmosphere of fear.The problem is that if an beginner is NOT trained well and and if she/he does not know how to get down safely they still might kill themselves, and the “loss of control” scenario is not something to take too lightly. Loss of control is among the three main reasons for light airplane accidents.
Whenever i do (or did .. haven’t done it in a while) a flight review for SEP with somebody I asked them if they knew how to get through a cloud layer safely, like if they were caught above the clouds near our home airport. For example, i asked the, how could they find out if the clouds were not on the ground (except calling “info” which most will not do because that would reveal they’re on top). Very few of the real beginners had the idea to dial in Munih ATIS 123.12 (the airport is ten miles from our field) for example.
No flight instructor I know teaches the safe methods to descend through a cloud layer by hand: slow down, flaps 10 (Piper), 80 or 90 knots, take hands off the yoke and stay on a heading by using the rudder only. I have demonstrated it a thousand times and some pilots were really shocked how simple and safe that is.
You ask a german flight instructor why that isn’t taught and he will go: “It will make them do it”. (Fxxx!)
Flyer59 wrote:
slow down, flaps 10 (Piper), 80 or 90 knots, take hands off the yoke and stay on a heading by using the rudder only.
What, specifically, is the purpose to apply flaps 10 in this scenario?
Of course you could do the same without flaps, but I think that the Piper (Warrior, Archer) fly nicer with flaps ten below 80 knots … and with falps ten the stall speed is only 50 KIAS (or so). I also used flaps ten when i scud ran through some mountain valleys. With 80 and the flaps at 10 you could turn it around almost on the spot.
(80 knots is nicer I think than 90)
slow down, flaps 10 (Piper), 80 or 90 knots, take hands off the yoke and stay on a heading by using the rudder only.
That would kill you in a TB20, or many others, within tens of seconds. You would get a spiral dive if there is any turbulence.
For us no gyro flyers you would maintain a Southerly heading on the compass for an emergency cloud break descent, the compass being most sensitive on a southerly heading and acting in the correct sense.
Aircraft would be trimmed nose up and you would maintain heading with rudder.
Never have done this, but was official back in the day before Venturi gyros.
The PPL requires demonstration of an emergency glide descent. Trim for best glide plus five knots and descend in a gliding turn of 30o bank, recover on an altitude. This differs from the emergency descent using flaps.
It’s a pity EASA never adopted the IMC rating, which is still around in the UK. Understanding MSA would be useful.
I tend to agree with flyer59 a stable descent on instruments would be a better learning objective, although the glide descent in a 30 degree bank does teach speed control and complements the spiral dive exercise.Yes, 30 degree bank can easily be flown. But for a real beginner who would only habe the objective to get below the clouds a hands-off descent on a gyro heading is the safest. Some years ago i did one in the Warrior in moderate turbulence .. absolutely no problem. as loing as you stay on the same heading … nothing will happen.
For an inexperienced pilot (and mayn who have flow and a lomg time!) that’s really astonishing that the plane will never bank as long as you stay on the heading.
But I had a model airplane with rudder and elevator only, because back then a remore control with more channels was very expensive .. so i learned that one early ;-)
Thanks for the report, Vieke !
With a Spanish-speaking wife who, regularly but only, visits Madrid on business trips it certainly seems time to pay a visit to some other parts of Spain again. Made me fire-up autorouter to look at some potential routes.
Thx for sharing
achimha wrote:
In the German scene you would get tarred and feathered for posting this. Not allowed for VFR, dangerous, stupid etc. but the opposite is true. It is the right thing to do and it is safe and being prepared and qualified to do it is a prerequisite for VFR on top over a longer distance (read “unclear and changing weather”). Trying to do an aerobatic manoever through some small hole while desperately trying to remain VMC is dangerous because that can get you IMC in an attitude you don’t want to be in. A safe, planned and controlled descent to a known situation (weather report of the control zone) is the way to go.
+1 for that statement!!
