airways wrote:
It’s easier to set-up a jet for a CAT 3 landing than land it manually for the first time. Just inform ATC about your intentions.
Sure. But do you know how to set up the A/P and where the PTT (as opposed to the A/P disconnect switch) is in a B737?
The problem with talking anyone through the setup of an autopilot or FMS is that the person on the ground can’t see what the guy in the plane is doing. Have you ever explained someone over the phone how to set up a computer or rather simple stuff like programming a VCR? It’s better if you have a visual feedback or have the same machine directly in front of you in order to be able to explain exactly what must happen after each button press. Keep in mind that we are talking about this:
So now explain your mother how to lower the gear (you may use the numbers). And then the lever might have some kind of safety lock against inadvertent engagement. Ever struggled to put a rental car’s gear lever into reverse? But if someone has hundreds of hours on the same type in the sim he should be able to fly that thing.
Clipperstorch wrote:
So now explain your mother how to lower the gear
“Mother, look at the panel just to the left of and above the left knee of whoever is sat in the right-hand seat. There is a lever that sticks out of the panel with a round knob on it – you can’t miss it – it’s the only one sticking out like that. Pull it down.”
172driver wrote:
as opposed to the A/P disconnect switch
One will certainly know about it if one inadvertently presses the A/P disconnect. Anyway, pilots who fly every day may do it from muscle memory but note that just about every switch, button or control is quite clearly labelled. Look, read, and think. Then do.
As an aside that might help determine where the real challenges lie, during lockdown I have succumbed to my inner geek and bought a desktop PC fast enough to run X-Plane 11 properly.
Manually flying anything the software cares to simulate is easy enough, but I have taken to flying mostly the GA models (Columbia 400, Cirrus VisionJet) for one simple reason: to fly from A to B one needs to navigate, and I have been able to teach myself a G1000 just by fiddling with it but I cannot teach myself the FMS of a Boeing or an Airbus like that. I would need to read the manual, and I cannot be bothered.
Graham wrote:
One will certainly know about it if one inadvertently presses the A/P disconnect.
Of course. And then what? Do you know how to reconnect it? I see pilots struggle with that in Cessnas…. as for the labeling – have a close look at a well-worn yoke of any airplane and show me the labels. In any case, I’ve never seen a PTT switch labeled.
What I’m getting at here is simple: IF you can establish comms and IF you manage to get someone on the other end who can talk you through the whole procedure (ideally a pilot rated on the type you’re trying to fly), then you may have a fighting chance. The first and prob99 biggest hurdle for any non-pilot would be comms.
Are there real life examples of non pilots landing an airliner ?
172driver wrote:
In any case, I’ve never seen a PTT switch labeled.
I agree – therefore the PTT is the one without a label! :-)
Seriously, I might not be able to tell you exactly where it is on an A320 or a B737, but sit me in the seat and it’s going to take me about 10-20 seconds to decide which one it is. And if it isn’t that one, I’ll try another. Though I wasn’t really talking about stuff on the yoke – I meant the stuff in the panel which in a modern Airbus or Boeing is very clearly labelled.
For the AP, I will ensure HDG and ALT are illuminated and then press the AP button. If that doesn’t work I’ll fly it by hand.
Starting with zero time on type, flying a 737 accurately (I mean holding altitude to within say 1000ft) is much harder than you think. It has a performance several times that of a top end SEP, and 10x if empty.
Also you won’t find half the switches and buttons.
No way ATC could talk somebody down unless he/she knew quite a bit and had time to play. You won’t even work out how to change the radio frequency so in no time at all you will be out of range. In fact you will be way out of range of the last station by the time you assume the position in the cockpit. There will be nobody to talk to, and you will never find the next unit in range – just like on any IFR flight we do, or any VFR flight without some frequency reference.
You also need to know at least roughly the speed ranges for each flap setting, and the gear. If you are a good pilot then you can err on the low side…
Anyway, back on topic, it does sound like all these people had fake exam passes (which is irrelevant especially as the 14 exams are done and forgotten a very long time before getting even into a sim – except the obvious correlation between a personality type which fakes exams and the personality type you absolutely do not want in a cockpit) but probably got through the TR, albeit with 3rd World factors like a bit of “lubrication” involved to get a pass.
There must be reasons why 3rd World airlines crash much more, even in the same brand new planes as everybody else flies. But this cannot be discussed openly (in the media etc) without getting attacked, especially nowadays.
Peter wrote:
Starting with zero time on type, flying a 737 accurately (I mean holding altitude to within say 1000ft) is much harder than you think. It has a performance several times that of a top end SEP, and 10x if empty.
Indeed. Even in X-Plane 11 it is orders of magnitude more difficult because of the performance. It can be done, but one has to really concentrate – especially when using a cheap joystick that does not really give the right feel and is plonked on a desk in front of you. It is not like an SEP where one can just fly ‘over there’ for 10 minutes at pretty much 5,000ft or some arbitrary altitude without really paying attention, like you drive to the shops ‘on autopilot’. I find I need to concentrate, otherwise you’re climbing or descending (or accelerating or slowing) at some alarming rate.
I can have a good stab at gear, flap and approach speeds based on how big and heavy (and slippery) something is. It is not that hard to get in the right ballpark if you have a brain that lends itself to sussing out practical physics.
Don’t worry about being out of range. Call on 121.5 ;-)
The only thing of use that will be listening on 121.5 will be this on your wingtip 
