My current panel is a mixture of vintage 1981 and 2000. The early stuff is the KFC200 analogue FD Autopilot. RGV restored this to good working order with a new servo and controller. The KFC200 when well maintained is rock solid. Servo maintenance is indifferent to digital or analogue, and in fact the most popular digital AP is subject to a servo AD. Other remedial work was the DME and I replaced the engine analyser with an Insight G2.
I have some glass, in the form of a KI825 EHSI, which would look good in a MD-80 vintage airliner. The flux capacitor appears to need attention, but if this bit of kit is not an easy fix it will be replaced by a GI275 EHSI. One problem on an SEP is the awkward location of the remote compass, so an EHSI run with a magnetometer does remove some old systems and might add a few pounds of useful load.
The transponder was updated by a secondhand GTX330 for Mode S, Mendelssohn provided credit on the old Mode C and supplied an excellent reconditioned unit.
The NAV COM GPS units are the very trusty 530/430 non WAAS combo. There is a good Traffic Alert system which shows traffic on the 530 (both Mode C and S). Like a New York utility am not planning to replace these until they expire. The EHSI can select either box, and the 430 has a separate CDI with resolver.
Other kit is a lightning detector and a vintage air data computer, the main benefit of this being providing a second digital altimeter. Finally it has a digital radar altimeter which is functional and is useful as a DA alert.
It also has a 1990’s audio entertainment FM/CD player, which is appreciated by passengers.
It has standby alternators and instrument pressure systems.
I follow carefully the type market in the USA and while some high time variants have had digital glass makeover, in an effort to make them marketable, the majority have piece meal updates.
To make the aircraft US market ready the transponder would have to be upgraded to a GTX345 or GTX335, plus a relevant GPS.
If I felt the need to update more comprehensively it would be:
GI275 AI and EHSI combo which works with the KFC200 and would allow removing the remote compass, standby instrument pressure system and main AI pressure system – not sure how much useful load is gained, but a few dozen pounds.
GTN750xi, GTX650xi and remote transponder. Removing one box.
GMA345 audio panel removing the FM/CD.
Not sure what surgery this requires but I doubt there is change from 50-60 AMUs. I doubt this would be recouped as the market appears to value AFTT, airframe condition/history and powerplant more highly. Would it make the airplane more marketable, possibly. It would certainly improve the panel but I doubt it will have a material impact on value (more than 5-10%j either way.
RobertL18C wrote:
would allow removing the remote compass, standby instrument pressure system and main AI pressure system
For that you need to ensure that Builder did plan a STC allowing to remove the vacuum system, otherwise you will have to keep it even if not using.
Applying Occam’s razor and yet meeting all practical aspects the update might be:
GNC255A NAV COM
GTN650xi with remote GPS Mode S ADSB out transponder
GMA345 Audio
GI275 EHSI
The instrument pressure system remains. Assuming some modest credit for removed equipment, this might be around 30 AMUs. Possibly plus 30 AMUS.
@Greg_mp I think the paperwork is straightforward especially on a remote compass. The surgery of removing vacuum/pressure systems is probably expensive, but I would hope a GI275 (compatible with KFC200) AI would come with the relevant STC.
Probably for the compass, but the if desired goal is to get rid of unneeded piece of junk, all plane may not have the possibility to do it.
Otherwise I have been quoted 30k€ for:3 GI275 (AI+EHSI+EIS) on a TB10 recently, which had GCN255A/GNT650Xi/GMA340 (not counting any vaccum stuff), 3 months ago
Area you doing this upgrade for your own use over the next few years or with a view to a sale in the near future?
It sounds like it’s with a view to a sale.
If you are going to spend 50-60k which will have little impact on the sales price, just to make it more marketable, then ask what difference a 40-50k discount on the sales price would have on the marketability? Cheaper and easier, and you still have the option of doing the upgrade later if you need to.
@dublinpilot no plans at the moment, eventually the airplane will be sold in the USA, so at a minimum it will need a GTX335, only a few AMU. I started the thread in light of the value of glass debate in a separate thread.
My impression based on over 300 datapoints on the type, is that it doesn’t add much value to the airplane, if it has a decent, functional panel, certainly only a fraction of the installed cost. There does seem to be a cottage industry buying high time airframes and then doing a panel makeover, possibly some cosmetics, and then trying to sell the product with a full mark up. In effect trying to boost the marketability of a high time airframe. Conversely low time airframes in very good shape have similar, if not higher value, with relatively modest panels.
Sadly, a friend just took an opposite path lately – buying a second aircraft with all the avionics he wanted. Plan was to transplant the avionics to his – same make and model – aircraft. As it turned out, the second airframe was even in a better shape and it ended in changing aircraft and get rid of the old completely. A very emotional goodbye, but a great lesson to learn from.
Many aircraft for sale now appear to be with loads of money spent for avionics upgrades, gone slightly beyond halfway before realising it is a stupid path ;-). Whatever money you spent will be lost, so only do it if you are absolutely certain you fly down the invest to zero book value imho. There is no business model in applying avionics upgrade and expecting even partly payback of the invest.
A friends Mooney in Austria….
September 2022
Recent Work Completed, Last Week
All for the price of two of my aircraft in their entirely, or maybe a bit more (he gave me only a smile and ‘pretty good guess’). On the other hand his plane has been flown at least three times across the Atlantic, he likes to fly that sort of thing and has earned the money to do it.
The main point is if IFR is needed. Once in this case, there is avionic needed, but a whole lot of additionnal that will help and potentially save your life depending the case.
I am mostly in this case and have seen a very nice plane with good old fashion avionics and everything works greatly. Apart from an Aera (or an Ipad cooled dock), nothing much to add to be good to fly VFR all around Europe… If IFR comes into the plate, it’s 30k€ for the 6 pack, and another 30k€ for the GPS and radio. For a 180hp fixed gear, this is a another plane, as for Michal’s or Silvaire’s story..
RobertL18C wrote:
GNC255A NAV COM
GTN650xi with remote GPS Mode S ADSB out transponder
GMA345 Audio
GI275 EHSI
We have put the GNC255A, GTN650Xi (no remote txpndr, but it does talk to the existing one and allow data entry) and GMA345 into our TB10 a few years ago. I think it was all-in about 16-17 AMUs. We also put in a G5 as the HSI, imagine G1275 slot in just the same while costing a little more.
Garmin is good kit and I think these ‘separates’ make for a good useable panel. I’m wary of one big screen because of 1) single point of failure, and 2) becoming trapped in a manufacturer’s ecosystem.
