achimha wrote:
A TIT probe that is placed after the turbo? That doesn’t make sense.
None whatsoever. TIT = Turbine Inlet Temperature
Michael wrote:
Yep, see it here : http://www.vitatoeaviation.com/
That’s probably a good mod to look into if you’re about to do an overhaul anyway. Says it will do 215kts at FL220 on 17,5gph.
Here’s one with the mod already done for sale:
Yes, therefore the turbo can’t get hotter than the highest value from the TIT. On the other hand, I wouldn’t expect much cooling in a few centimeters so the actual location shouldn’t be important. If the limit is 1650°F, a temperature of 1700°F would be an exceedance of 3%. Is that within the accuracy of the probe?
AdamFrisch wrote:
Says it will do 215kts at FL220 on 17,5gph.
I bet that’s for the T210… The P210’s engine installation is a nightmare. I would be cautious with an invasive STC that hasn’t received extensive testing.
AdamFrisch wrote:
That’s probably a good mod to look into if you’re about to do an overhaul anyway. Says it will do 215kts at FL220 on 17,5gph.
Your normal OH costs would be around 45’$
The 550 mod includes a new prop and is in the 115’$ region.
Sure helps on the climb CHT’s and increased Cruise speed
achimha wrote:
A TIT probe that is placed after the turbo? That doesn’t make sense.
Well tell that to Piper. And while you’re at it, tell them what you think about having just one TIT probe for two turbos, and about placing it half a meter of exhaust away from the starboard one.
It’s a HOT subject (sorry for the pun 
) for Malibu owners, since there are multiple SBs and an AD on the Malibu TIT probe & gauge which requires that it be calibrated regularly.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Pressurisation system: How is it working? Manual? Automatic? I see that the max altitude is FL200.
I fly a P210N Silver Eagle, that is a turbine conversion of the P210N airframe, albeit not for a very long time. So I’m not going to say anything engine-related.
It is said that P210R are rare, and command a premium in price.
Many are very well equipped qua de-icing (boots on wings, horizontal and vertical stabiliser, high temperature pitot, heated stall warning vane), but not officially FIKI, I think because they miss a dual alternator setup. A few are FIKI. I recently discovered that a replacement heated stall warning vane is insanely expensive (10 000 USD – you read correctly, that’s ten thousand). For N-registered aircraft, there is a shop that can overhaul them for cheaper, though.
With reference to difference training… I’ve been looking
The reputation of the pressurisation is that either you accept sub-book performance (inability to reach maximum rated pressure differential of 3.35psi) or you spend lots of time and money chasing leaks. A notable one is through the landing gear actuator boots, which need changing every ten years or so (to maintain leaks to an acceptable level), but these are easy to diagnose: pop the gear out and if the pressurisation gets better, that’s your leak there.
The official ceiling is FL230 (P210N) or FL250 (P210R), but note that even if your pressurisation system is working at max rated differential, you have a cabin altitude of 9500 feet when at FL200. Unless you are willing to use supplemental oxygen (with a portable system), with modern EASA regs, you won’t fly higher than that.
Regarding the gear doors, I think later models have this fixed, partly by not having doors on the main gear :) There is also an STC to remove the doors.
The pressurisation system lacks a rate-of-change limitation. That is if you cruise at 7500 feet without pressurisation, then turn on the pressurisation when it is set to cabin sea-level, it will immediately work very hard to achieve that and give you serious ear trouble. In this situation (which is not the typical way you would use it), you have to set it to 7500 feet cabin, turn the pressurisation on and then very slowly turn the setting down. In this example, for a comfortable 500fpm rate of change, you’ll be busy turning that knob for 15 minutes! On other planes, you have two knobs: the desired setting, and the maximum allowable rate of change. Except for having to be cautious when turning pressurisation on (which must be after take-off) and off (which must be before landing), I know of only one operational scenario where this can be annoying: if/when you set the pressurisation to much lower cabin altitude setting then it can hold, e.g. sea-level when you are flying at FL160. In this situation, the cabin altitude you’ll have will be around 7000 feet. Then you start a rapid descent, say 2000-3000fpm. The cabin pressure will happily zoom down at the same rate. Maybe that’s not as much of an issue with a piston engine, since I hear that to achieve that kind of descent rate, you’d have to throttle too far back, rapid cooling and you’d break your cylinders, although I hear that some owners install speed brakes so that they can do rapid descents.
tschnell wrote:
What you actually set on the P210 (don’t know about the twins) is not cruise altitude, but rather cabin altitude.
RobertL18C wrote:
http://www.onaircraft.com/the-planes/the-silver-eagle-ii/
The Silver Eagle turbine conversion appears to be now only for the 210 L,M and N?
From here
Mooney_Driver wrote:
some numbers of the P210. Could you share some of them?
Sure, on the ‘N’ models (the majority of P210’s) useful load is 1250-1500lbs depending on config for 4000lbs MTOW. Owners tend to load it up with lots of extras hence the variation. Ours is 1500lbs. CG is rarely a concern.
Fuel is 87-89 USG usable standard depending on fuel system plus optional aux tanks ( 29usg for aft tank, 33 for tips) . We dont have tips.
I don’t have reliable numbers for a non ‘P’ 210. For our P210N we rarely run at 75% as it has an impact on cyl life. More like 65-70%. Performance is dependant on OAT (more so than non-turbos, where most of what you lose on power at high dens alt you gain on TAS vs IAS), weight and config.
Typically at mid-weights (800lbs load, ISA+10 @16GPH LOP (70% see note below)
FL200-195KTAS
FL170-190KTAS
FL140-185KTAS
FL100-180KTAS
SL-155KTAS
(Note) This is vs max rated hp, but the POH gives % vs Max Continuous, so this can be misleading depending on where you look at.
ROP at max allowable cruise (75%) you’ll be using 20-24gph (depending on OAT) at 205ktas at FL200 but we rarely fly like that.
We have a very clean airframe (no boots, no radar, gear doors installed) so are 5-10ktas faster than most. Also, MTOW will lower these numbers a further 3-5 KTAS and lower weights will increase it 1-3KTAS.
I am long due for a proper write up on the P210, I have to get around to it one of these days…
Antonio wrote:
I am long due for a proper write up on the P210, I have to get around to it one of these days…
Yea, I’d like to read that with interest. I will never be able to afford one but I always thought the P210 is a remarkable machine.
A few years ago I missed a Mooney Mustang being sold off here for a song, in great condition too. It went to Germany. I would have gotten my hands on it sure as hell if I could have.
P210 owners and prospective buyers should have a quick but careful look at the lower wing spar carrythrough lug where the screw for the underside wing to fuselage fairing is screwed up to the lower wing root skin. Through poor Cessna design, one screw location corresponds to the fuselage station for the lug (they could have spanned the lug). One of my clients had a P210 in which too long a #8 screw had been used in this hole. The result was that the end of the screw damaged the lug in it’s most critical area. It was an expensive engineering analysis and approval to validate the the spar lug was still safe. It was within 0.002" of being note safe!
Generally, it is vital that the spar carrythrough be in good [corrosion] condition. The P210’s are generally pretty good, as they left the factory with good primer protection. It’s the earlier 210s whose un protected spar carrythroughs have suffered horrible corrosion damage, and an in flight failure in Australia. I developed a process, and approved it to change the spar in a 210G, which worked well, and restored a delightful plane. I know of two other 210’s which were scrapped for corroded spar carrythroughs. 210’s are great planes, but certain models (least the "P"s) left the factory with inadequacies which are now potentially fatal to the structure of the plane.
