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How about this Trinidad?

This is one for Peter ;-)
A friend and I dream of buying an airplane. Since we started renting this TB20 GT Link, our attention was caught by that classified Link . It seems to have been published by the Socata-affiliated flying school down in Tarbes Link .
This aircraft seems to be well equipped but a bit pricey (150k€)

I have 2 questions:
1) What should one think of this ad, knowing that on the same site there is a much crappier TB20 not GT for one-fourth of the cost Link ?
2) What could be typical operating costs for the F-reg nicer TB-20 GT ?

Thanks in advance for your opinion.

Here is a copy & paste of the nicer classified, in case the link is removed:

Type: Monomoteur
Marque: Eads/Socata
Modèle: TB-20 GT Trinidad
Millésime: 2002
Immatriculation: F-GRBZ
Numéro de série: 2105
Attributs: Équipé IFR
Toujours sous hangar
Visite annuelle: 3/2014
Emplacement: France, TARBES, LFBT
Heures totales cellule (TTAF): 964 h
Prix: € 149.000
UE VAT payée: oui
Nombre de passagers: 5

Nombre de moteurs: 1
Marque/Constructeur: LYCOMING
Puissance: 250 PS
Heures totales: 206 h
Marque/Modèle d’hélice: HARTZELL
Heures totales d’hélice: 120 h

Description /Détails de moteurs
NEW ENGINE : 05/2013

Audiopanel : PS Ingeneering PMA 7000M-S
Autopilot : BENDIX/KING KFC-225
+ Stormscope : BF-Goodrich WX-500
Transponder : Mode S BENDIX/KING KT-73
ELT : Kannad 406 AF-Compact
Standard instruments : – 2 x Attitude Indicators,
- 2 x Altimeters,
- HSI,
- Turn coordinator

De-ice (TKS) : – wings, elevator and rudder
- propeller
- windscreen

as new

Inspection Status

LFLY, France

F-GRBZ looks nice. It is (S/N 2105) of the same “build batch” as my S/N 2121. It even has the same “ex TBM700” Shadin fuel totaliser. The avionics are of good quality and reliability – except the KFC225 autopilot but there are fixes for that. This is a nice aircraft and with just 200hrs on the engine and VAT paid (have I got the VAT right?) the price is about right.

Things to watch/check:

  • A standard prebuy is a must, of course… check for corrosion (may have been sitting outdoors for 12 years) including elevator (endoscope) inspection
  • Make sure the oil filter is cut open and the sump strainer examined too; obviously no point in doing that if the oil has just a few hours on it… (but this should be a standard prebuy anyway)
  • Where did the engine come from? Socata had 10-15 old ones stored since c. 2001 which were comprehensively rusty. This “new” engine might be one of those, with a “low cost” overhaul
  • The engine has done 206hrs since May 2013? If genuine, that’s good regular usage
  • Installing an EDM700 is a must on this type of aircraft
  • Check the Shadin installation has been done per the Shadin STC – details here If not, and not being N-reg, there may not be a legal fix (the practical fix is easy, and maybe Socata can “just do it” under their TC). Getting this right is a must on this type of aircraft
  • Check all avionics including all autopilot modes are fully functional
  • Check how old the autopilot servos are. Try to get fresh ones; their mechanical life is ~1000hrs and they are $3k-$4k each.
  • Future airspace regs (RNAV1/PRNAV) will be pricey to comply with because the KLN94 does not have the supporting approval and the KMD550 MFD is not fully compatible with any GPS that has (GNS430/530 onwards)… this is a stupid issue because this aircraft can fly anywhere VFR/IFR with “perfect” accuracy, and the KMD550 contains European VFR VRPs. However RNAV1/PRNAV is years away from being operationally relevant…

As regards the 1982 aircraft, that is a 1982 model and is priced like a 1982 model – about right. Of course it will fly, but there will be many little issues, for sure, and maybe some bigger ones. But €41k will get you a very capable machine. Just be ready to throw 10k-20k at it over the first few years, as needed.

If you can afford a GT then buy a GT, without any question. It is a much better aircraft, in many small ways.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Hi Peter,
Thanks for your very complete and quick answer.
Your experience is invaluable :-)
Could you also give your estimate for the yearly operating costs “once stabilized” (after the initial 50-60k€ we would add) based on approx. 200-250 hours per year ?

LFLY, France

On 200-250 hours a year, the fuel will dominate everything, unless

  • you seize the engine up, or
  • you own an oil well

Hangarage and insurance will be a few k each. The 50hr services will be €100 in parts plus ~5 man hours labour (if you do them) or ~€700 (if you get a company to do them). The Annual will be € (very little) if you do it with an engineer and have a Part M colleague to sign it off, or €4000+ if you use a company. Engine fund maybe €15/hr.

What do you plan to spend the €50-60k on?

This post is worth a look too.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

150k€ is too expensive, I’d not pay more than €100k. For 150k€ you get a Cirrus SR22 G2 which is a much more modern and capable aircraft.

That’s highly debatable. Actual mission capability is mostly according to equipment e.g. TKS for TKS, turbo for turbo, etc. The TB20 also has a lot more range – it does a lot more MPG.

In any case, a good GT will sell for €140-150k or so. I know of a number of them and what they went for.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

the a.m. TB20 is also fully deiced, which is a 50k bonus if you like to install a TKS at a later stage …
150k for a SR22 G2 seems to be a price without tax

EDxx, Germany

I guess he was pulling a leg on you…

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

A lot more range?
Please explain, Peter.

I see it has about 7 Gallons more fuel than a G2 and a higher celing (20 k vs. 17.5)

Last Edited by Flyer59 at 18 Nov 09:04

Guys, if you want a TB20 v. Cirrus thread, why don’t you start one, rather than derail this one.

I am not sure I will participate in one though, after all the recent trouble we’ve had here.

Indeed, the full TKS alone is worth some €20k-30k on the selling price of a GT – based on what I have seen.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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