Snoopy wrote:
And, UK to France, +EU VAT?!
Shouldn’t it be that they sell their services -UK VAT and you add it later?
What about something like this instead of a tb20? I know a lot more expensive but it looks like a great value aircraft (with 2x maintenance costs I’m sure!)
https://flightlineaviation.co.uk/listing/2010-piper-malibu-matrix/
Rami1988 wrote:
What about something like this instead of a tb20? I know a lot more expensive but it looks like a great value aircraft (with 2x maintenance costs I’m sure!)https://flightlineaviation.co.uk/listing/2010-piper-malibu-matrix/
Yes, three times the cost as well… Ah, and keep in mind that while it is every so slightly cheaper than normal Malibu, the Matrix model is unpressurised. I honestly don’t see the point… If you buy PA-46, why not the pressurised one?
I’m just kicking ideas around to be honest! Im now convinced i should buy an aircraft that is available in the UK and is in good condition – rather than a specific type. The import costs (30%+) / hassles are just not worth the benefit of getting the specific aircraft.
I think the pressurised one has the biggest maintenance cost increase from what ive read so far – and i believe it needs a type rating (not 100% sure on this).
TB20 to malibu matrix is a big leap in everything. Not just purchase price and maintenance, but insurance and hangarage also becomes more difficult to find.
But if you have to money and it really fits your future dreams and ambitions, go for it.
There are others on here who can advise on what extra training you should have.
Personally, if I was going there, I would look at the Beech King Air C90. Purchase price and even maintenance when averaged out over engine life works out around the same.
Or so I am told by an acquaintance who owns one.
However, it is a twin and we have discounted them.
And to be honest I wouldn’t buy any aircraft at that price, at my time of life. I’m more in the @Silvaire school of thought except I have decided to steer clear as much as possible of the regulated regime.
Rami1988 wrote:
and i believe it needs a type rating (not 100% sure on this).
No. It’s just SEP, so no type rating.
Rami1988 wrote:
Im now convinced i should buy an aircraft that is available in the UK and is in good condition – rather than a specific type. The import costs (30%+) / hassles are just not worth the benefit of getting the specific aircraft.
That is probably not a bad tactics, however I would not go overboard. The Malibu series of which the Matrix is one subtype is not something I’d recommend to a new pilot. They are not that easy to manage and have an accident rate to match, mostly loss of control in IMC by people who underestimated it.
If you are financially flexible enough to afford that Matrix and want to stay unpressurized, other than a TB20 I’d look at a Cirrus SR22. Apart from being comfortable to sit in, it has a similar to range than a TB20 and is faster and it has the parashute system, which is not a bad thing to have particularly if you are considering going IFR in the near future. Some earlier models may have a lesser payload than the TB20 but the question there is again how often you need the full 4 person load. For the price of that Matrix, there is a choice of pretty newish SR22’s around. Most of them are FIKI as well, but most of them are N-Reg, however that is something which is quite common and there are enough people here who can tell you how to deal with that.
Personally as a real 4 seat traveller, I think the TB20 is very hard to beat in the complete package: Range, Speed and Payload. So it may well be worth giving it a bit of time and wait for an example which fits your wishes. It is however also a fact that most airplanes will need the one or other modification (avionics) which is part of airplane ownership. Consequently it may well be a variant to see if one of the TKS equipped TB20’s you’ve seen can be usable for you if you decide to get done what made them a “project”. (Apart, for me a project airplane is a non-airworthy airframe which needs substantial work to get back flying. While you personally may decide that an airplane is not equipped well enough or has issues which need addressing while retaining airworthiness, that does not necessarily make them a project.)
Looking at the UK market right now, there is a quite big choice of airplanes available, so maybe it might be a good idea to take a step back and go around looking at various airplanes to see what they really are about. Currently there are some airplanes I’d be very interested in looking at given your budget, amongs them some which cost drastically less than the TB’s we were discussing and which would allow you to improve them if you wish or simply use the money to fly them. If you are restricted to G-Reg then some of those drop out, but still there is a big choice. It may also be advisable to talk to someone with experience in the airplane trade and see what they can come up with which might be interesting to you. Often enough, thinking out of the box may yield rather interesting results too.
In my own experience, the main thing when looking for airplanes is to keep a very open mind and not to dismiss airplanes too fast because of comparatively minor issues or because they don’t fit the original expectation. I’ve seen it happen quite often that people looking for a particular brand or airframe ended up buying something totally different at a much better value for money which made them quite happy for many years.
So in the end it’s all about mission. If the TB20 appears great in the mission profile, then there is a bunch of airplanes which have similar profiles: The SR22 is certainly one, Bonanzas, Piper Arrows from the III up, Mooneys from the J-Model up, Rockwell Commanders, Cessna 182 or 210’s and more which all do the same thing a bit differently but as capably. Also doing a twin rating is not a huge thing which then opens up airplanes like Cessna 310’s, Senecas or even Twin Comanches, which in my view are very capable travellers in their own right for the right person. Also there are people here who can give you all the information on how to run an N-Reg plane, as that opens up quite a bit of market as many good airplanes are N-Reg in the UK.
(and if the current Australia report by the terbangs has tickled your interest, there is actually a pretty nice Mooney 252 Encore as well as a Bravo available in the UK… the Encore is sold by WF Aviation, one of the owners of that company is a resident here. ) Terbang’s report should speak for itself when it comes to the capability of those airplanes. )
Remember that you will find it very hard to get decent photos out of any pressurised airframe. The Matrix is not pressurised but this still applies. This is one of the reasons I never bought a Jetprop; it would have been a big increase in capability but at the cost of poor photos which to me is worth a lot.
Most people in your position with tons of money just buy a new SR22 and change it every two years 
The TB20 is unbeatable for all the right reasons e.g.
My trips speak for themselves.
Going to N-reg is harder today for reasons posted e.g. most if not all of the “paper collection” needs to be done in the US. I have an FAA CPL/IR and I did all mine back in the days when so much of this stuff was easier.
I fully agree Peter. If I ever were to upgrade from my current airplane, the TB20 would be at the top of my wish list, particularly as today I have to travel with a child on board. The main reason for that compared to my present plane would be the range and the more comfortable cabin. Plus I simply like the TB20. I once wanted to join a club which had one,but they sold it after I started training on it.
I think in the end, each of us has his own story how we acquired what we have and why we are happy with it (or why not and changed). Your story has been very inspiring for many people pretty much also because a) you did not let yourself be intimidated after your PPL to buy an entry level plane but went for your TB20 right away and b) because you make excellent use of it and let people share the experience.
My own choice was optimal for me at the time because:
- It was the best bang for buck by far for my budget (still would be today, either a C or E is still what I consider the best thing to fly for the price of a PA28 but 30 kts faster)
- It has the payload and speed I want and can work most airfields.
- It is affordable maintenance wise.
I sometimes wish I’d have more range (currently 500 NM realistically) but for what I do, so far I’ve only once gotten to the limit.
But with relevance to the OP: The M20 was definitly not my first choice, primarily because I had no clue I could afford it and I knew nothing about them. I was in the market for a PA28-180 or 140. I fell almost asleep in the -140 with it’s 90 kt speed and the 180’s were too expensive. (The 180 is a phenomenal load carrier and can get in and out of everywhere and it is a dirt easy plane to maintain, that is why I looked at it.) I found my M20 while running the -140 through a pre buy and never looked back.
Today, if I was looking in the sub 100k budget area, my favorite choices would be again a M20C/E or rather a 201, if I would travel further, a PA30/39 Twin Comanche, possibly the turbo normalized one. Up to 200k I’d definitly look at TB20s or a Mooney Encore or a Seneca II/III. With the budget of the OP I’d most probably look at a P210 or a Cirrus.
