Old Mooneys (M20J & M20K) from 1970-1990 had weather radars (RCA1001) under their wing, I am not sure if the recent ones like Ovation or Acclaim have something like that?
Other than piston PA46, are there any SEP that are still made these days with factory (or modification) AWR under the wing? Bonnies?
Obviously, those onboard AWR are pure waste of useful load and pilot money if the aircraft can’t make “350kts mark” to allow for prompt penetration and quick escape: serious convective weather moves and change faster than aircraft position, so it does not matter if you can “see it”, if you “can’t move” at 100kts doing VNO or Va
If the aim is to keep things to one side, stormscope & datalink (ADL in UK or ADSB in US) are cheaper options, otherwise, 300£ of Avgas is more than enough to avoid all sort of weather phenomena out there, assuming, the pilot has RT skills to ask ATC for avoidance
Ibra wrote:
Old Mooneys (M20J & M20K) from 1970-1990 had weather radars (RCA1001) under their wing, I am not sure if the recent ones like Ovation or Acclaim have something like that?
Nope, at least not as a standard option
Ibra wrote:
Obviously, those onboard AWR are pure waste of useful load and pilot money if the aircraft can’t make “350kts mark” to allow for prompt penetration and quick escape: serious convective weather moves and change faster than aircraft position, so it does not matter if you can “see it”, if you “can’t move” at 100kts doing VNO or VaIf the aim is to keep things to one side, stormscope & datalink (ADL in UK or ADSB in US) are cheaper options, otherwise, 300£ of Avgas is more than enough to avoid all sort of weather phenomena out there, assuming, the pilot has RT skills to ask ATC for avoidance
That is open to discussion – heard many times (grumpy voice on) “son, for hard IFR you must have an onboard radar so you can do the tactical avoidance”. :)
Although my original note was just an observation point – MEPs are more open to AWR installs.
I doubt AWR make sense now in IFR tourers as US manufacturers have ADSB weather and stormscops (yes it has some delays but it’s more than enough)
That is open to discussion – heard many times (grumpy voice on) “son, for hard IFR you must have an onboard radar so you can do the tactical avoidance”. :)
Usually someone with PC12 or CJ4 based in Farnbrough, LeBourget, Amesterdam…and who has to take ATC vectors and COHOR slots (or ****), the majority of “other flyers” tend to have plenty of options here and there and can do without AWR, again it’s just Avgas and it’s cheap
The other breed of pilots making such claims are B737 & A320 drivers (or ex-drivers), these guys fly Chipmunks or RVs in blue days while keeping airfield in sights, they don’t even weak up on weekends to fly SEP when it’s SCT at 3000ft
I doubt AWR make sense now in IFR tourers as US manufacturers have ADSB weather and stormscops (yes it has some delays but it’s more than enough)
Aircraft radar is far more powerful for tactical decisionmaking than a satellite wx radar feed. But it is all context dependent; most planes which have it usually don’t have stormscopes, but can take lightning strikes.
Obviously, those onboard AWR are pure waste of useful load and pilot money if the aircraft can’t make “350kts mark” to allow for prompt penetration and quick escape: serious convective weather moves and change faster than aircraft position,
I disagree. To me, availability and correct use of airborne weather radar is a requirement for any flights exposed to inclement weather. Besides that, even an entry level IFR SEP will do around 130 KTAS or more. Which weather moves faster than that? Plenty of aircraft doing far less than 350kts, albeit with onboard radar and anti-icing do just fine to avoid the nasty stuff.
so it does not matter if you can “see it”, if you “can’t move” at 100kts doing VNO or Va
So it’s better to fly based on luck and hit a TCU or CB while flying “blind” and slowly? Which entry level IFR SEP has a Vno or Va less than 100 KIAS?
If the aim is to keep things to one side, stormscope & datalink (ADL in UK or ADSB in US) are cheaper options, otherwise, 300£ of Avgas is more than enough to avoid all sort of weather phenomena out there, assuming, the pilot has RT skills to ask ATC for avoidance
It is by now widely accepted that using datalink based weather radar is not a substitute for real-time onboard weather radar. How exactly does one keep “things to one’s side” when in IMC, flying through an area with forecast convective weather and while looking at 20 minutes or more old data?
Ibra wrote:
Usually someone with PC12 or CJ4 based in Farnbrough, LeBourget, Amesterdam…
Let’s help everyone intending to buy a light jet or turboprop to save a few million dollars by explaining how to fly a non (onboard radar and pressurization) equipped GA airplane on a schedule aka. through real weather and predominantly in IMC, especially through troughs, fronts and during TSRA season?
There are quite a few “stepping uppers” out there that after many years, many planes, and now after 5000 hours are flying a CJ4, who admit they will not do stuff anymore that they happily did back when flying a SEP.
I do flights in a turboprop without batting an eyelid that I wouldn’t even think about in a SEP. I’d also do flights in an airliner without batting an eyelid that I wouldn’t even think about in a turboprop.
I’d say @Peter is very successful in extracting the maximum potential out of his plane, and yet we often read about his flight dates moving up and down a day, flights being scrapped entirely or destinations changed due to and/or around weather.
@Ibra you know your stuff I’m sure and have sound judgement to get things done in the best and safest ways. I do however also think that plenty of others who’ve “gone west” also weren’t stupid or incompetent, they simply went the well known, and retrospectively flawed, “it worked last time” route once too far.
I think you misunderstood my post, all I am saying bolting AWR on Balloon does not help that much…
Lot of people fly piston IFR with ADL/ADSB data links and/or stormscopes, a large proportion in Florida during summer, in the likes of Cirrus, Bonnies, Mooneys, Diamonds…it’s not very difficult to keep nasty weather in one side or wait for it to clear up (sorry, I can’t explain how one put extra Avgas in an aircraft)
