They are also in EasyVFR.
maxbc wrote:
SUP AIPs always appear in NOTAMs
Every French PPL instructor I ever flew with told me the contrary. They told me one has to manually look through SUP AIPs, looking at NOTAMs is not enough, there won’t necessarily be a NOTAM for restrictions introduced by SUP AIP. Maybe they are wrong, or maybe they were right when they taught me that and the system has now improved.
Happy to learn the world is, in this regard, better than I thought.
I think your instructors are probably correct in that there is no guarantee that a NOTAM will be issued for them.
In practice though, there always does seem to be.
I cannot see how the famous Narrow Route Briefing (which I have used since 2001 or so) and which is invoked by all satnav apps, would work if there was no data stream available on a given route.
All these briefing sites and all the satnav apps are – AFAIK – obtaining some polygon (or more likely a circle) list and they display the stuff, optionally within x nm of the planned route.
I would be amazed if there was something else. If there was no notam database, how else could one gets the RAs etc? Especially ones which have not changed for decades.
A topic for another thread?
They told me one has to manually look through SUP AIPs, looking at NOTAMs is not enough
That would be complete madness and would be workable only if one basically never went anywhere! Or just flew 50nm down the road.
The narrow routes pick up the SUP AIP as does satnav apps like Skydemon..@bosmantico shows how it appears on Skydemon. To get the full picture you click on the SUP AIP.
An IFR Eurocontrol FPL will avoid those inside CAS including airways. OCAS you need to search all Notams and SupAIP as you would in VFR. However most SUP AIP don’t rise to the flight levels you tend to use in IFR and FIS will warn you that you are leaving controlled airspace and is that okay with you and will often but not always warn you of active SUP AIPs that might have an effect on your route.
It’s also possible that this has changed recently. Most instructors have habits taken long ago. It’s also possible that the administration was a little fed up with people not being aware of the SUP AIPs and made sure all of them were NOTAMed.
For my part I was (potentially wrongly) never taught to look up SUP AIPs other than using NOTAMs.
Maybe, but nobody is going to be wading through AIPs, let alone AIP SUPs, before flying. Completely unworkable. One checks AIPs for airports, only. Or maybe airspace AIPs if flying an Annex 1 internationally.
Peter wrote:
Maybe, but nobody is going to be wading through AIPs, let alone AIP SUPs, before flying. Completely unworkable. One checks AIPs for airports, only. Or maybe airspace AIPs if flying an Annex 1 internationally.
Well, AIP covers the whole airspace if I’m not mistaken, so in theory you need it for every part of the flight. Mostly it’s integrated into paper charts or apps (and fortunately noone has to check the actual publications to see what CAS exists… the source publications are unreadable because they work like law amendments in Official Journals). Indeed the only bit of AIP that you directly look up are VACs. Even for IFR approach charts I think third parties have to translate the official doc and present them to you in a readable format.
Peter wrote:
Maybe, but nobody is going to be wading through AIPs, let alone AIP SUPs, before flying.
My post goes in this very direction. I only ever looked up SUP AIPs via route NOTAMs.
I also would not have thought of looking at SUP.
ForeFlight shows these as well, for ex sup 86 above, and actually report a notam id so likely means it’s published as a notam
The big difference now from say 20years ago is that satnav apps and Oilivia and now Sofia actually shows the SUP AIP zones on the charts. Previously the Notam gave an SUP AIP number and often a set of latitudes and longitude for the range of the zone. The only way to see it in a map form was to go to the SUP AIPs themselves.
In going to the SUPs themselves you can narrow down the search..You have 3 boxes VFR, IFR and AIRAC. You can tick one or more of them.
@maxbc I am very surprised that the significance of SUP AIPs were not stressed in your training. Both the FFA, FFPLUM and DGAC all push very strongly on this through the clubs DTOs and ATOs.
