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Will a phone ever be anywhere as good as a DSLR?

Apple have probably just decided to implement depth of field using software. It clearly works well enough for social media type photography, and you have the great advantage of being able to blur the background afterwards.

Also phone sensors are way too small for two apertures like this (Samsung) to deliver a usable depth of field variation, unless the subject is just a few cm away. Camera enthusiasts rave over full-frame sensors and the resulting much better control over the depth of field, compared with APS-C, even though both of these have a huge chunk of silicon in them, and the price being paid for FF is big; not just in money but the FF cameras (like my K1, which is one of the smaller ones) are heavy enough to serve as a weapon, especially with a FF lens hanging off it

Re Filmic Pro, I have that too. It still cannot do a bitrate which is not available via the camera API. What it can do is present the options in a more “technical” way than the factory app (and it can offer nice stuff like saving them upon exit, etc) which is usually the result of a “how can be dumb this down for idiot users so they have a nice experience and don’t slag us off on instagram” committee

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Re Filmic Pro, I have that too. It still cannot do a bitrate which is not available via the camera API. What it can do is present the options in a more “technical” way than the factory app (and it can offer nice stuff like saving them upon exit, etc)

True, but do you think that’s a problem? What level of camera API is available on DSLR camera’s?

It opens up possibilities that previously hadn’t been imagined. Which has been the way since the iPhone was introduced. Noone realised how much we “needed” a device in our pocket that’s so incredibly powerful

For example this Introducing Multi-Camera Capture for iOS

In AVCapture on iOS 13 it is now possible to simultaneously capture photos and video from multiple cameras on iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max, iPhone XR, and the latest iPad Pro. It is also possible to configure the multiple microphones on the device to shape the sound that is captured. Learn how to leverage these powerful capabilities to bring creative new features like picture-in-picture and spatial audio to your camera apps.

There is a level of innovation that simply isn’t there in DSLRs. Yet the quality of full-frame DSLR’s is unmatched as you say. But they are relegated to the purist / professional realm rapidly

I wonder if @archie is still around?

Sony reckon by 2024 a phone will beat a DSLR on image quality. This is obviously nonsense but I can see the DSLR market dying out within say 10 years, though not by 2024. As I wrote above it won’t surprise anyone that the DSLR market is going to continue to shrink.

Currently, at max optical zoom, a Samsung S22 Ultra matches the Canon G7X Mk 2 but only in good light and because the phone has a x10 zoom whereas the G7X is x4.2.

S22 Ultra

G7X Mk2

The phone has a bit more Unsharp Mask – as do all consumer products

Clearly if you did a demo like the above (good light, etc) then nobody would buy a G7X. The phone is about £1200 whereas the G7X is about £500.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

IMO DSLRs will continue well into the future at least for the professional market.
A phone relies on electronics to change focal length and that is achieved through a zoom feature, which is not the best way to change a focal length, although it is great for the consumer market because of the convenience it offers.
But the professional photographer/cinematographer relies on changing the focal length optically. An optical zoom outperforms an electronic zoom, and a fixed focus lens outperforms a zoom lens when one is looking to exhibit in a large format.
The problem here is that a digital Hasselblad for instance, costs around €30,000 before adding the different lenses, filters etc which are electronically built into the phone these days.

France

Perhaps the real Q is what DSLR sales will justify supporting the retail portion of the market.

All the graphs one can find on google show a fairly steep decline, but the professionals have no choice but to use DSLRs.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

When this thread was active a coupe of years back I wrote that the iPhone still suffered on zoom/telephoto. Since then I have acquired an iPhone 12 Pro and it is as good as anything elseup to 6x or so. I still have a pocket camera with 30x optical zoom which I carry when I think I’ll needit, and excellnt it is too. But now 95% of my pctues are with the phone, and at normal enlargement I challenge anyone to see the difference.

Professional photography is a whole different game.

LFMD, France

There are enough professionals using professional cameras, both DSLR and Mirrorless to warrant a market need. The people who are really into photography, are playing with nuances and advantages of light that someone with an iPhone would never consider. Just look at the number of companies making specialist lenses if you think there is no market there. Multiple companies compete to have the best lens for a given focal length. I imagine the number of people really into photography must be 10x greater than the number of people into GA flying.

Each thing you add to your photography makes it better. Go from a beginner’s crop sensor camera with a kit lens to a full-frame with a prime lens. Learn how to use a flash. Add in a monopod or tripod. Optimise all the camera settings and shoot raw. Learn about photoshop and lightroom. Once people say that camera takes great photos, I always hand it to them and say go on then…

You’ve never seen a woman so pleased, as when you’ve taken the perfect photo of her. It’s up there with knowing how to cook.

Buying, Selling, Flying
EISG, Ireland

Peter wrote:

I wonder if @archie is still around?

Hi yes :). I still think of this thread from time to time.

(i)Phones are still getting better, but the changes is incremental, not orders of magnitude like a few years ago. But where I would consider buying a DSLR a few years ago. Nowadays – no way! I’d just spend a bit of time setting up the shot on my phone, capture in RAW, and get acceptable results that way.

Peter wrote:

Perhaps the real Q is what DSLR sales will justify supporting the retail portion of the market.

I wonder if there is a comparable product where the same happened that would tell us the story. Perhaps cassettes / vinyl / CD’s / DVD’s …?

but the changes is incremental

Yes, although I was surprised at the S22 Ultra versus the G7X Mk2. If one compares the “ready to eat jpegs” (no RAW, no Lightroom, no tweaking needed) then at a common zoom factor, say 4, they are practically the same. Only in good light of course, and where stabilisation is not pushed too hard (still can’t beat DSLRs for that).

So the Q becomes: what % of users just use the jpegs? The answer is obvious and must be way over 99%.

The funny thing is that full frame DSLRs, compared to smaller sensor DSLRs, are pointless, expensive, bulky, unless you want the shallower depth of field, or specific unusual lenses. An APS-C sensor is capable of producing a huge file. But there will always be people who need or want the very best regardless of cost. So maybe the market will become just FF DSLRs, and high-end phones. But that won’t happen either because Marketing requires a graduated price-performance choice.

I wonder if there is a comparable product where the same happened that would tell us the story. Perhaps cassettes / vinyl / CD’s / DVD’s

I can’t think of a good parallel. Casettes were crap and were dead as soon as something better came. CDs (16 bit linear audio i.e. 16ppm resolution, at 44kHz) are the pinnacle of audio quality unless the original is created to a higher standard still, which almost no music of relevance today (it’s mostly old stuff, or it is throwaway junk) was. And now both CDs and DVDs are dying because few people buy laptops (which are not ideal for a CD player) and even fewer buy desktops, and most people are streaming music off the internet (legal or pirated), and few products come with a CD because people accept downloading the stuff as normal. And nobody can set up an experiment where the audience can statistically-significantly tell the difference between 16 bit 44kHz data stream and something better (which is not surprising given how small 16ppm is in our physical world and biology in particular). Whereas anybody can tell the difference between any camera and any other camera no matter how much they cost, just by zooming in, or pushing low light cases, and all the time that is the case, the market for “something better” will exist.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

This is interesting… Digital Camera Market by Type and Geography – Forecast and Analysis 2022-2026

DSLR market segment growth … wishful thinking?

I can’t access the market segment breakdown due to account-wall.

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