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Why are some ads online forever?

Hi there,

long time lurker here, and just finishing my PPL by the way
Anyway, with a few friends we are considering buying an aircraft. I know this sounds stereotypical and I agree that it would onl ymake sense if we are at least 3 persons to stack up the hours over the year. In our case a big incentive is that we have to drive quite far (2hrs) to get to an airport with decent rental aircraft, while having our own would reduce it to about half an hour. We hope this would result in higher utilization and it would be definitively more convenient and “easier” to just go for a short hop if the long driving could be avoided.

Now, back to the question: I was watching some ads over the last months, and I noticed that some airplanes seem to just disappear after a very short time, while others are listed seemingly forever. I think I am missing something, but it isn’t obvious to me.
Here an example: https://www.planecheck.com/index.asp?ent=da&id=50531&cor=y local copy

This is a Bonanza A36 that would fit our mission pretty well, but looking around any 36 seems to be priced more in the 200k-300k range. It is an older type, and I even got some quick and kind answer from the seller with more details. The aircraft suffered a belly landing 25 years ago which has been fixed (so they say). Pretty nice looking engine, old avionics… But I still can’t put the finger on it. Maybe one of you guys have a better eye than me

Thanks
Luke

LOWI,LIPB, Italy

I’m guessing it is a combination of local market conditions and prospective buyers adding up deferred maintenance costs and hassles.

I can’t comment on the price or anything else in relation to the A36, but FWIW one of the local A&Ps here imports planes with those issues from Europe. What he’s been doing is buying hangar queens in the EU that need a lot of EASA regulated maintenance that no local buyer wants to pay for. Then after importing them to the US and converting them to N-registration he does the work needed himself and sells them quickly, typically in a week or two. The latest is a Piper Arrow, bought and disassembled in Norway, trailered to Germany initially, containerized at his small shop there and then shipped. He’s also got a Cessna Cardinal that was similarly imported with work now underway, for some reason going a bit slower.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 18 May 14:51

Congrats on your PPL.

You raise a valid point. I wish ads would time out. The way it is now, brokers and sellers leave them up forever.

Why? Well, sometimes for free exposure, even if the plane is long sold/off the market again, or because it’s some un-sellable exemplar and they keep hoping.

always learning
LO__, Austria

lukepower wrote:

The aircraft suffered a belly landing 25 years ago which has been fixed (so they say). Pretty nice looking engine, old avionics… But I still can’t put the finger on it. Maybe one of you guys have a better eye than me

As you say it is one of the older series of A36, which for many are not that desirable for the 14 V system and the 3 seat rows rather than club seating, it also has very limited baggage space behind the last row (there is an STC to change that btw).

What would have to be found out is the actual fuel capacity it has: The original A36 only had 44 USG usable standard tanks. This airplane definitly has tip tanks, so quite possibly it has either 64 or 74 USG total usable. With the tips, range should be quite ok, but ask the owner for that.

On the plus side, it has the upgraded IO550 rather than the IO520 the first A36’s had. It has the well known KFC200 AP and associated instruments as well as a GNS430. You’d sooner or later need to upgrade to WAAS or possibly replace the ADF and KX155 with a 2nd GNS/GTN box and leave the actual 430 as backup. From afar I don’t see anything wrong, other that the plane appears not to have flown much, so a good check of the engine by an engine specialist and airframe for corrosion would be highly recommended. But it is kept aiworthy, ARC is valid to October 21.

Beech is not known for very cheap parts and some reports do say that maintenance can be expensive. Maybe ask the owner for his last couple of annual bills will give you an idea.

Why it won’t sell is a good question. There are people who are spooked by “damage history” but I’d say that is probably the reason it has the IO550 and a fairly new prop as well. There may also be folks who don’t find the paint job very exciting, but that won’t matter much for how it flies. Some might object to the older design with 3 seat rows rather than club (this being an A36 that might actually be modifiable if you desire) and the simple fact that it is significantly older than the rest. Yet, total time is quite low and looking at the general impression it doesn’t look bad.

Pending a thorough pre-buy, this airplane could buy you into the A36 type significantly cheaper than comparable others, if you are willing to accept the few shortcomings it has. (14 V and 3 row seating being the major ones) and upgrade a few things if you need them. Definitely try to find out as much as you can about it. Maybe also a bit of price reduction may be possible, even though value does not appear too overrated.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

@lukepower, Mooney_Driver comments all on point. Belgium is quite an easy authority to issue an export CofA to convert to N reg, but the Beechcraft has some ADs and SBs which are quite complicated if they have not been complied with, and the DER may want them done when converting back to N.

I would say it is 99% certain this has 74 USG main tanks. The 44 USG seem to have been supplied to the airline cadet schools (Japan, Lufthansa).

Vref suggests a fairer asking price might be €120k?

Earlier A36 are sought after because they can be an honest 1400 lbs useful load, while a later A36, and new G36, are around 1,000 lbs to 1,200 lbs.

The third row seats, similar to the 210, are a bit low and cramped.

I had a long discussion with a very experienced engineer who knows the type well. It was a bit of a damascene conversion: looking after these airframes in Europe is not for the faint hearted or light of wallet. I think they congregate in Germany because there is a reasonable ecology of owners and engineers who know the type well, and do not skimp on maintenance.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Thank you guys for your insights and opinions, I really appreciate that. It’s good to have a European-centric GA forum here

I got some more details from the seller, and asked about the fuel capacity. Let’s see how that turns out.

UL is 1322 lbs, so no ttoo bad.
As for the 14V system, may I ask whats that bad with it? I understand that a switch to 28V is desirable, but can one work with this older system? Say, you put in a G500 or other “new” avionics, do you need to switch to 28V?

The big question would surely be how expensive those airframes are to mantain and fly. It might make more sense that we buy a “simple” PA28 or the likes to build hours and gain experience before taking the dip into a bigger plane. What I also really want to do once is sit in a Mooney (never had the chance to do so). I am intrigued by those small palanes, but wonder if I can convince my wife and kids to do some yoga sessions to get into there.

Thank you all
Lukas

LOWI,LIPB, Italy

Some answers here. Lots of planes are not selling because the seller is “not engaged in the process” (putting it really politely). Anyone trying to buy a plane will know exactly what I mean

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Hi Lukas, it will have a UL boost due to tip tanks, but it sounds as if EW is not as light as the early 36.

The 28V apparently makes the gear cycle go smoother, and as you point out, may give more options on avionics upgrade.

I think the PA28/32 type is about the most easily maintained in Europe of the CofA types. If family comfort is more important than handling qualities or ramp appeal, I see a Cherokee Six in your horoscope.

The Mooney 201 is a comfortable aircraft for a small family, and perhaps easier to find a maintenance shop that understands them. They like to be hangared, in fact all GA like to be hangared.

Oxford (EGTK), United Kingdom

Thanks again for your insights. Had to stifltle a laugh about the horoscope comment, Robert :)

I know this has been beaten to death, but considering that the family missions might be further away, does it make sense to start with a PA28 or similar cheap, slow aircraft and then upgrade to something else if needed – or begin outright with a PA32 for example? Considering it would be our first ownership experience I realize that we will overlook plenty of smaller and bigger points that might become obvious after the first years of ownership…

LOWI,LIPB, Italy

Where in Italy do you stay? Which airfield would you base the aircraft at? And what places would you like to fly to?

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany
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