From here
Great write up as always, thanks Peter.
Montpellier is one of my favorite destinations and a great base to explore the surrounding area. Nice to hear that the airport is still GA friendly.
Peter wrote:
Then I got a shortcut to a waypoint partway down the IAP, MT505, for which there was no published profile, so I asked him whether he will give me descent instructions.
The IAP does have information about the minimum heights around MT505 just to the right of it on the map, indicating a MSA of 4800 ft within 10 NM of it. So with that shortcut and the indication of 5000 over MT505, if I understand it right, you can keep over the MSA quite happily. In this case, stay over 6800 ft until within 10 NM of MT505 and then descend to 5000. Obviously he would have had to assign this altitude to you if you are IFR.
Peter wrote:
Then I got a shortcut to a waypoint partway down the IAP, MT505, for which there was no published profile
The plate says 5000’ at MT505 and the TAA in the direction you’re coming from is 4800’ within 10 NM. Couldn’t you get down from FL70 to 5000’ in 10 NM?
I don’t know what TAA stands for but if you are referring to this
isn’t that just MSA, and MSA is for emergency use only?
Nice trip report, looks like you had a nice weather gap !
Then I got a shortcut to a waypoint partway down the IAP, MT505, for which there was no published profile, so I asked him whether he will give me descent instructions
There is TAA for MT505, that does not count as published profile? MT505 is not an IAF but it’s sits before “2nm before FAF”: you can fly straight there on direct or vector shortcuts but I think you did the right thing if in doubt: asking for full procedure with IAF at GIGNA 
ATC can give direct to final or vector to final axis on RNP procedures (as long as it’s 2nm before FAF or FAP), it gets fiddly in GPS as you need to direct on IAF and activate the leg, otherwise you will get lot of WTF moments 
I get this every time at Toussus (direct to some dodgy point PN619 that is not an IAF) or Pontoise (radar vectored to RNP final), what is odd is MT505 is not even in the original VOR plate, you go from GINA to 2nm before FAF !
The full procedure starts at LEKLA which is where I was originally going via.
Like I said, MSA circles are for emergency use only, AIUI. Maybe @ncyankee knows more but I recall the MSA circle on Jepp charts has always been strictly for that purpose.
I went back to LEKLA but was sent to GIGNA before I got there. The GIGNA thing is unrelated.
There are 4 IAF in that plates (MT500, MT502, GIGNA, LEKLA), so there are 4 “full procedures” that you can fly depending on where you come from, also you can shortcut to MT505 (it’s not an IAF) and you can still fly there using it’s TAA
I don’t see the relevance of MSA here? the VOR procedure above has MSA circle around FJR but you were flying GPS to one of the 4*IAF on TAA?
Curious question how do you select one of the IAFs on KLN? I see GIGNA (IAF) on this picture then RNAV12L from LEKLA
GTN show all these as transitions including “MT505” and “vectors” that are not an IAF
The KLN94 offers different options of IAFs, once you select the 12L GPS approach.
Despite these massive screenshots posted, I still don’t get that these MSA circles or arcs can be used to fly the procedure normally (non emergency). But maybe France is different?
Peter wrote:
Like I said, MSA circles are for emergency use only, AIUI.
Well, what they do is give you information about the safe altitude to fly within range from a specific point. So if you were given a direct to MT505 at FL070 while within the half circle you have MSA for and given that MT505 on the profile has 5000 ft as crossing altitude, you can safely descend to cross MT505 at 5000 ft within 10 NM from MT505. However, on the direct, ATC should actually give you the descent (or you have to request it) once within 10 NM from MT505.
Looking at the standard profile via LEKLA; this pretty much mirrors this. LEKLA to MT503 is at 7000 ft then it is a step down to 5000 over MT505 (7 NM distance) and so on.
However, on the direct, ATC should actually give you the descent (or you have to request it) once within 10 NM from MT505.
I am sure you are right but ATC can give descent instructions only according to their radar vectoring chart. I don’t know what that is. All I know is that when I asked if they would give me descents, they backed out of the deal
Looking at the standard profile via LEKLA; this pretty much mirrors this. LEKLA to MT503 is at 7000 ft then it is a step down to 5000 over MT505 (7 NM distance) and so on.
Sure; that’s the Jepp chart and I am always happy to fly those – as charted. Not according to MSA circles etc.
Your French anti-Newton is probably Cassini
He did better than Newton; got a whole spaceship named after him
There is tons of ink on when you can descend when you are cleared for approach on GPS, when you descend on TAA and when you keep assigned altitude, when you intercept RNP final and how you sequence with other traffic
https://www.ifr-magazine.com/technique/approach-clearance/
I spared BoldMethod along with many pages on “load & activate & vectors to final”
In EASA land, it’s never clear to me when one should descend after getting “cleared for approach”?
I am talking about traffic separation, terrain separation is very trivial here, I am following the procedure the answer it depends on who you are talking with, don’t do the former in Paris (they vector as low as 2kft to some ILS while you are on direct IAF RNP at 4kft), don’t do the latter at Biggin (Thames Radar will yell at you)
On vectoring life is easier you fly what are given but double check
