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Velocity moving to Portugal

Hello. First post here.
I’m currently residing in US, living near Washington DC, where you also have to file for every flight like apparently in many parts of Europe. I’m planning to move from here to Portugal next Summer. Most likely around Tires (Cascais/Lisbon) so I can be near an airport. I built a Velocity XL (registration N455AH). Took me about one and a half years from start to test flight, plus maybe another year to fix minor issues, paint it, and I’m still tinkering with it. It’s a very capable airplane, with an IO-550 engine, 170kts cruise speed, brand new IFR capable avionics package, and it’s able to lift 4 people with full 90 gallons (340 liters) of fuel, with a range of between 1,200 and 1,500 miles (1,900 to 2,400 km) depending on how high and how lean I fly. I plan to bring it with me, possibly even flying it over the Atlantic via Canada > Iceland > UK. But it seems there is a whole lot of homework I’ll have to do on what’s allowed and what I’ll have to do.

So far, reading this forum and elsewhere, I’ve learned that as an experimental, I will require permissions from every country that I overfly. Once I get it to Tires, I’ll have maybe a month that I can keep it parked there before I have to register it in EU somewhere. Apparently, aircraft owners just register their planes in whatever EU country is best, rather than the one they live in, and it sounds like Portugal may be either too strict, or just too confusing with regards to experimental. And it also sounds like experimental may not be allowed to fly IFR, which is really a shame, since mine is capable with autopilot to fly the plane almost down to the runway.

If anyone has any advice, or tips, or anything else they can suggest with regards to this, even where to look for this kind of info, I would really appreciate it. And thank you for all the great information on here so far (even if some of the posts are many years old and may be out of date)



KHEF, United States

Reregistering your Velocity in a European registry would likely be challenging. In the UK they do allow importation and re-registration of homebuilts but the plane has to be built or reworked to the approved spec of a quasi-regulatory club (LAA). If it isn’t, or isn’t one of their ‘approved’ types at all, you’re out of luck. If re-registration were possible in let’s say France it would give you a route to somewhat practical VFR-only use of the plane in Europe. It may be possible in some specific countries, with significant work, but I would not embark on that course without a lot of local info and specifics.

As far as I remember, the easiest (only?) European country in which you can legally base an N-registered E-AB aircraft is Germany, with a permit that has to be renewed annually. People do it with short range, locally used e.g. aerobatic aircraft. Others permanently base N-registered E-AB aircraft in other European countries but I believe it’s generally illegal. There are regardless some e.g. turbine Lancairs flying around, occasionally discussed here.

I’m sure others will offer their valuable experience.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 03 Nov 03:26

I went to search for aircraft for sale in Portugal, and found this Vans RV-8 For Sale in Portugal (registration CS-XCM)
So I guess there are some experimental in my class with an experimental registration there. Unless the RV-8 is much lighter.

Last Edited by MTozoni at 03 Nov 05:16
KHEF, United States

MTozoni wrote:

I built a Velocity XL (registration N455AH). Took me about one and a half years from start to test flight, plus maybe another year to fix minor issues, paint it, and I’m still tinkering with it.

Wow – that’s a really quick build.

Are you planning to leave the aircraft in Europe?

I can’t offer much advice, only that there are N-reg experimental/homebuilt aircraft in Europe, flying around, and not causing too much trouble. No idea if they are “legally” doing so.

Fly more.
LSGY, Switzerland

Welcome to EuroGA, MTozoni

What you can do is highly country-specific. As fas as it known, the only country where you can keep an uncertified N-reg legally is Germany. Well of course you can “keep” it anywhere, as a lump of metal parked somewhere; it is the flying which is the problem.

UK and France prohibit anything uncertified which is not on G or F reg respectively, for more than 28 days.

And so on.

There is very little enforcement (there are reports of the CAA/police turning up at big airshows in Germany and looking for exactly this stuff, but you always have insurance to worry about) and in Portugal (which is rather a far corner of Europe) there is quite possibly zero enforcement of anything You get the same in the former communist bloc – the east end of Europe – where N-reg Lancair Evolutions are flying around. We do have some members here who are based in Portugal and perhaps they can advice on how many N-reg non-certified planes are there.

As regards putting your plane onto the Portugese reg, the only way to find out for sure is to ask the CAA there. They may require “disassembly to 50%” or some other crazy thing.

There does seem to be a general move in Europe to limit permanently based uncertified to the domestic registry. In practice this means you end up flying more and more “under the radar” i.e. flying non-transponder or with just a Mode C (which doesn’t radiate the reg like a Mode S one does), and do local flights, probably non-radio, and very rarely fly outside that country.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I know of at least 1 RV9 on the French registry.
It is used in a club/school in southern Brittany.
However, I think it was built there as well.
On the DGAC website somewhere, might take a bit of searching, there is a run down of how to get either an experimental or a kit plane registered in France. They can be different categories. An experimental, IIRC, not on the list of kit planes, starts off as F-W before becoming F-P after OSAC approval.
I do not know of an experimental or kit plane which has been approved for IFR in France, and most literature that I have seen says it can not be. However, someone once pointed to some small print in the OSAC approvals that did say it was possible under certain conditions.
The 3/4 scale Mosquito built as an experimental in this area was progressing along this route before its demise. It often performed at airshows during the summer and this was the reason it was being considered. But, much of that is anecdotal.

France

Ha just bumped into a pal who is a member of the RSA and he reminded me that some years ago there was a guy here who built and registered a Velocity on the French register
As you were the owner/builder and have the documentation to show that, in theory, it would be possible to register it here.
However, I am not sure what your residential status would need to be whilst you were registering it. Perhaps someone else might know this.
My friend was also part of the Mosquito building/now Mosquito rebuilding team but he didn’t know how far they got with finding out what they needed to do and equip the aircraft with to gain OSAC approval to fly IFR with it.
He was not optimistic that it could be done.

France

There was a change in France in 1998. Before that you could register all sorts of US kitbuilts.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

As regards putting your plane onto the Portugese reg, the only way to find out for sure is to ask the CAA there.

I think that is the key. You need to speak to those who will be making the decisions.
I’d go one step further. You probably need to arrange a face to face meeting and fly over and talk to them in person. I’m sure that they get lots of calls about people with ‘an idea’ asking is it feasible. They get fed up answering these questions. Someone who has built their own aircraft, is moving to Portugal and flys over to discuss how to make it happen in person, is much more likely to get the attention and consideration that this endevour will need.

Never understimate the power of an official to help you if you ask for help face to face in a friendly way! Telephone calls/emails/letter…..they get too many of them to put much effort in.

EIWT Weston, Ireland

Welcome to EuroGA!

I lived for many years in Estoril / Cascais, Tires is (was?) the busiest training airport in the Iberian peninsula. A lovely place.
There are a few experimental (and experimental registered as ultralight) aircraft in the country.
There’s an EAA chapter that might be a good contact point for you. They are mostly in the center of the country, in Viseu.
They would know a thing or two about relevant rules and bureaucracies.
https://eaa-portugal.webnode.pt/perguntas/

The site is quite old and I haven’t spoken to any of them for a long while but contacts there and/or their facebook page should give you a starting point.

MTozoni wrote:

registration CS-XCM

Yup, in PT, the X there is for experimental. (and U for ultralight)

EHLE, Netherlands
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