For small GA planes like ours, it looks like a total non event. 25% more runway than Palo Alto, the busiest small plane airport in the world (so they say)
I think that gets lost as what comes to mind is PA46 hitting courcheval or CJ4+ going to LaMaule
For 32kts stall aircraft and 65hp with 10lbs/ft2, there is no “altiport restrictions”…
Nice pictures @LFHNflightstudent , Albertville seems to be a very nice place! 
I do think that France has quite a few airfields with “restricted” status, which would have been open to the public in other countries (or maybe just with a “PPR” restriction). A place like Albertville, which doesn’t have a high elevation (1.035 ft is quite low actually) and is also not located in a narrow valley, would have been approachable for everyone in Switzerland, Austria or Italy.
boscomantico wrote:
Worth noting the Albertville is of the kind which merely requires an instructor signoff. Note that this does not necessarily require any training or even a flight. Just a signoff.Good to know!
Even at Courchevel or Samedan nobody ever asks about the authorization if you behave properly.When you go into the C-office in Samedan, they now ask you to sign a form with flight details, which includes a checkbox (which you need to sign-off) stating that you’re current for Samedan, including a small written sentence like: “False statements might let to prosecution by FOCA.” Nobody is of course checking it, but they keep your form with your signature somewhere archived. This was new to me in 2021. When I was in Samedan with bosco in 2020, nobody asked me to sign a form. They just asked for my aircraft details and address for the invoice.
Frans wrote:
Nice pictures @LFHNflightstudent , Albertville seems to be a very nice place! I do think that France has quite a few airfields with “restricted” status, which would have been open to the public in other countries. A place like Albertville, which doesn’t have a high elevation (1.035 ft is quite low actually) and also not located in a narrow valley, would have been approachable for everyone in Switzerland, Austria or Italy.
The Valley isn’t that large either ;-). That being said, VFR going into Gap (because of traffic and entry points) is trickier than Albertville. One is (in theory) restricted the other not…
There are quite a few airfields in the Alps, located in narrow valleys, which aren’t restricted. But I indeed thought also about Mont Dauphin Saint Crepin, which is “Overt à la CAP”, but seems to be located in a more narrow valley including higher mountains around it.
Yep, and this last one (Saint Crepin) requires much attention to wind and glider density, but you will never see a jet in Saint Crepin because there is no luxury Sky ressort around. The problem with La mole is the density of Jets wanting to land there, they have to restrict it. Today it’s almost a Jetfly terrain (pc12 and pc24).
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
That being said, VFR going into Gap (because of traffic and entry points) is trickier than Albertville
Yeah, I’ve many stories there… All sometimes frightening, sometimes funny.
-Been taken over by an UL on the downwind (‘si ca t’embete pas que j’atterrisse avant hein? Je suis plus rapide)
-Been stopped on takeoff by the PC6 that was landing on reverse QFU (but on grass runway)
-…
Gap as Vinon requires great attention to traffic, but you have a very competent AFIS agent in GAP who manages it with experience most of time. Vinon is less mountaineous but it has 4 different and sequant runways and glider/UL traffic everywhere. Here I’ve been taken over under me by the glider tractor who actually never noticed me until my shadow gets on him.
greg_mp wrote:
Something actually went wrong at La Mole, and now you have to be endorsed on the plane you plan to use there reacting to the following accident. I think it’s the same on Courchevel, and I have no idea on Samedan.
La Mole went a little over the top in my opinion. They no longer aceept a mountain rating and you have to do the qualification on the specific aircraft type which means it very difficult to obtain and maintain such rating. It could even be close to impossible for rare aircraft types if no instructor current on your aircraft exists. This is also why I never did it. We do not fly there often enough. Courchevel and Samedan only require that you land there with any type of aircraft to keep the rating current for all types. Every 6 months for Courchevel and every 24 months for Samedan. For Samedan, at least for small planes, this entire restriction is a little over the top. So many more difficult airports have no qualification at all. But at least Samedan had a loophole last time I did check. If you fly a class B or higher aircraft you can land in CAVOK conditons and then you are qualified for all types of aircraft.
greg_mp wrote:
Yep, and this last one (Saint Crepin) requires much attention to wind and glider density, but you will never see a jet in Saint Crepin because there is no luxury Sky ressort around.Yeah, those ski areas in that area are more situable for low-budget tourism.
Nonetheless, I pretty enjoyed Vars-Risoul. Very cheap day pass (40€) and with very nice slopes and views. From the top of the mountain above Risoul, you even have a very nice view on the runway of Saint Crepin, like on a long-final for 34. Other ski areas in that neighborhood are also nice, like Serre Chevalier, Puy Saint Vincent or Montgenèvre. The last ski resort is connected with Via Lattea in Italy and does have also some higher-budget hotels. But are Jets allowed to use Saint Crepin without restriction? Does “Overt à la CAP” always mean open for everyone, without limit, as long as the pilot things the plane can deal with the runway and approach?For Samedan, at least for small planes, this entire restriction is a little over the top.Absolutely agree. Switzerland has far more challenging airfields, like Bad Ragaz, Ambri or Münster for example. Those are however open for everyone, with only a “familiarization flight recommended” note in the AIP. I think the high-density altitude and many accidents in the past have led to the current restricted situation in Samedan. Don’t think so many pilots are flying to those other mentioned airfields. Some of those smaller airfields have a very restricted PPR regime, like Kägiswil, Zweisimmen or Hausen am Albis.
Does “Overt à la CAP” always mean open for everyone, without limit, as long as the pilot things the plane can deal with the runway and approach?
Generally, yes. A few of them have no „no jets“ restriction in the notes of the AIP entry.
I think the high-density altitude and many accidents in the past have led to the current restricted situation in Samedan.
Well, most or all of the past accidents were not by SEPs, but jets etc. trying to get in in poor WX. Hence, the low end of GA was so furious when the requirements for Cat A were brought in, whilst those for the higher Cats actually remained less restrictive.
boscomantico wrote:
Well, most or all of the past accidents were not by SEPs, but jets etc. trying to get in in poor WX. Hence, the low end of GA was so furious when the requirements for Cat A were brought in, whilst those for the higher Cats actually remained less restrictive.
Yes there have been two types of accidents. First jets flying in bad winter weather. I remember one which took out the local power station trying to do a traffic pattern and the other touching some snow while doing a S turn on very short final. Second there was at least on SEP departing to the west in summer where the terrain slopes up and they did not make the climb gradient. And the online briefing really concentrates on those two areas and is actually not bad. The only thing missing is some possibility to do a first flight without an instructor for class A airplanes. For example they could ask people to do a detailed climb out performance calculation and send that in before the flight.
Frans wrote:
From the top of the mountain above Risoul, you even have a very nice view on the runway of Saint Crepin, like on a long-final for 34.
The Final is not that long :D
At 845m the runway, there is no way a jet can land here, because you need very heavy balls, at a point it will kill your landing performances :)
