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Advice on Amsterdam?

Well, here at LFFK our low level circuit is at 600ft or 500ftAGL( approx) . It is very handy when cloud base sits at slightly above that. It is also the circle to land altitude for the GNSS approach. Low level circuits form also part of safety training should there be a problem after take off which does not require landing straight ahead. Personally I was happy to have learnt it on 2 occasions when the engine didn’t sound quite right during initial climb but no.total loss of power.
During MEP training at LFBH it was also something that was taught.
My reference to ILS approaches to 200’ minima, and just seeing the approach lights in the mist below is both something I have been trained for and have carried out on many occasions, perfectly legal with an IR and the equipment capable of CAT 1 approach. Why on earth would I want to climb up through the cloud fora cup of tea and sandwiches, that’s just daft.

France

Lelystad has a standard VFR training circuit at 500’ and I believe Rotterdam is the same.

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

gallois wrote:

Well, here at LFFK our low level circuit is at 600ft or 500ftAGL( approx)

That make sense but I have seen people training for “bad weather circuit” at 300ft agl, I never understood what that circus was about? but hey some people like to keep an eye on the ground, most low level circuits or circling maneuvers are at 500ft-800ft agl bands

gallois wrote:

Low level circuits form also part of safety training should there be a problem after take off which does not require landing straight ahead. Personally I was happy to have learnt it on 2 occasions when the engine didn’t sound quite right during initial climb but no.total loss of power.

Yes I agree one has to breif for the possibility of a low level circuit return but the question at what min height? my vague guess it’s +500ft agl

In “engine sound scenario” scenario why I would have to do low circuit at 200ft? if the engine can’t climb and maintain more than 400ft, I am not turning back, especially in low IMC where you can’t even turn bellow 400ft agl on takeoff, even in VMC, if it quits with steep bank at 200ft agl I am 100% dead

Last Edited by Ibra at 28 Oct 18:34
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

That make sense but I have seen people training for “bad weather circuit” at 300ft agl, I never understood what that circus was about? but hey some people like to keep an eye on the ground, most low level circuits or circling maneuvers are at 500ft-800ft agl bands

In Biscarrosse, if you fly circuit for water landing on the lake, it’s at 300’ because of the different restrictions in the area. I don’t remember the details, but that’s what you get told. At the end you fly back to the airfield (the club having seaplane have amphibians so you start and end the flight on the hard runway) which implies climbing to the normal circuit pattern altitude (which I don’t remember on top of my head). When transiting over the lake you can climb to a very high 500’ altitude :-)

ENVA, Norway

WingsWaterAndWheels wrote:

In Biscarrosse, if you fly circuit for water landing on the lake, it’s at 300’ because of the different restrictions in the area. I don’t remember the details, but that’s what you get told

Aha, that is a very neat example: the circling protected area is the lake surface and MVL/MDH over water is ahem 50ft

This would be an exception though !

Last Edited by Ibra at 29 Oct 10:53
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Looking at the EHAM VFR procedures (VAC copied again below for reference). The short approach pattern specifies a rate 2 turn. I understand the “Theshold base leg” but I don’t get the rationale for the “Midrunway base leg” – when would that be assigned? Is it to avoid crossing the extended centerline for runway 24? From the image there’s only about 1 km of runway left at the point where you make the base to final turn – that would mean you’d have to be very low and very slow to still make it to a full stop in time or am I misunderstanding?

Also, the AIP does not really seem to discuss the ‘non Short VFR approach pattern’ – there is no description of a standard pattern. Is that ever assigned? In case it is, does that mean you’d be able to cross the (extended) centerlines of the surrounding RWYs (24, 27, 36R) or would the tower have you make a base to final turn before that anyway?

4.3.2.2 Short VFR approach patterns
The short VFR approach patterns (threshold base leg and mid runway base leg) are based on a maximum TAS of 120 KT and “rate 2” turns. They are established to avoid traffic operation on other runways, to expedite traffic and for noise abatement purposes. The short VFR circuit procedures shall be carried out as follows:

Threshold base leg: an approach pattern, the base leg of which is flown at 90° to the runway centre line exactly opposite to the threshold.
Midrunway base leg: an approach pattern, the base leg of which is flown at 90° to the runway centre line and opposite to the approximate middle of the runway.

EBGB EBKT, Belgium

It’s not unusual to be asked to fly at 500’ coming in from Victor, so your base leg is really short final with a 90-degree turn before touchdown. It’s quite an exciting maneuver. The standard pattern is the threshold base leg, and the short one is the midfield base, and both of these are designed to keep you out of the approach path. Most traffic using these patterns is based at EHAM, so they are familiar with the operations there. When flying in the area, you will often be asked to keep clear of the 24 or 27 ILS areas, and you are expected to know where these are. If you fly into the CTR as a non-based aircraft they will usually ask if you are familiar with the operations to avoid any doubt.

EHRD, Netherlands

I never experienced the mid-runway base leg, while the threshold base is quite common if runway 27, 06 or 36R are in use. 24 is usually a departing runway as it’s not ILS.
Depending on time of the day (and wind), landing airline traffic might be on the west side of EHAM and you can fly a standard circuit for 22 or 04, and not the threshold base which you’ll be asked to fly only if the nearby runways are in use.
Threshold base is exciting, as dutch_flyer said, as you have to be accurate and the picture you see is quite different than a standard circuit. But you really have plenty of runway, more than you would expect.

EHLE LIMB, Netherlands

I would add that it is a good idea to study the entire airport diagram. It’s big, even an A3 sheet is small for it, but although 04/22 is the default GA runway, you can be directed to any other runway, if they have operational needs, and you better be prepared for it. 06, 36R more likely but really, expect any runway. And then you will have a more scenic taxi route :-)

I met the retired air traffic controller that named the taxiways, and they are in fact quite logical; you have the A and B ‘rings’ around the terminals; G for general aviation ( 04/22 and K apron); S for South, N for North, you get the picture.
It’s only for the taxiways leading to the new 36L/18R (the ‘polderbaan’) that the naming becomes more random.

dutch_flyer wrote:

fly at 500’ coming in from Victor,

The instruction is actually " 500’ OR LOWER " :-) and, yes it gets your attention… It’s almost 10nm off really low flying, skimming the grass.

Last Edited by hmng at 28 Jul 09:16
EHLE, Netherlands

Thanks!

NicoKM wrote:

you can fly a standard circuit for 22 or 04

So in that case, where should one expect to make the base to final turn for say 04 in a standard pattern?

EBGB EBKT, Belgium
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