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Toussus Le Noble LFPN - anybody?

I plan to fly (from Munich) to Paris / Toussus Le Noble on Wednesday (IFR). Is anybody familiar with their IFR approaches and opening hours? What can i expect? The NOTAMS are a bit cryptic about the “Aerodrome Control Service Hours” … and it looks like on the 8th there’s “no service provided”, but maybe I’m too stupid to understand …

On the 8th there will be no ATS per NOTAM.
When there is no ATS, the airport is reserved to home based aircraft (IFR / VFR) in French only.
I’m not sure how this rule is enforced, but I know there is some checks.

I see … now that’s something new again ;-) I guess I’ll fly on Thursday then ….

Thank you Guillaume!

Anything special about the IFR approaches? what can i expect?

SIDs/STARs shared between the Paris area airports?

e.g. Pontoise operating Le Bourget SIDs/STARs. Caught me out! There was a tiny note in the AIP about it, which nobody would have spotted.

Not sure I would do Toussus – no Customs so can’t fly there direct from the UK.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

How about Nancy? Have you been there?

The ATS system arround Paris is complex and I’m not going sum it up in one post :-).
To make it (really) simple :

The Paris approach airspace is a cube. Inbound traffic arrive via the corners and traffic exit that cube via the sides.

For SID, the traffic comes from different airports and merge on the same SID (more or less). However, we segregate traffic according to aircraft performance.
For example, a jet will exit at FL 190, a turboprop at FL110 and a propeller aircraft at FL80. Once the segregation is done, we can offer unrestricted climb to jets (which is what they are looking for)

IAFs are also shared between airports. Usually, traffic going to general aviation airport arrive at a lower altitude so that they don’t interfere with commercial traffic going to major airports.

The initial approach flight path is an open trajectory : it requires vectors given by ATC to join the final approach axis. Vectors are given according to surrounding traffic. If no vector is issued, continue on the last magnetic track designated on the initial approach chart.

As usual, if you are not sure, ask ATC. If you are are lost, don’t hesitate to ask for vectors.

This systems offers a great capacity to the major and general aviation airports but it requires a great vertical extent. This is why you won’t find any airways below FL195.

For Toussus if runways 25 are in use, expect ILS 25R. If runways 07 are in use expect VOR 07L or RNAV 07L (say your request on initial contact or ATC will ask you anyway). If you arrive from the south (via IAF MOLBA or ODILO) you will find conventional or RNAV version of the initial approach. I suggest you fly the RNAV version as ATC usually issue a direct to PN619 at some point for ILS 25R. We don’t care if you fly RNAV or conventional : ODILO3X= ODILO3D, ODILO3F = ODILO3C, ODILO3M = ODILO3N…

ILS25R is very scenic (especially at night / sunset) as you fly very close to Paris.

Never been to Nancy.

Last Edited by Guillaume at 06 Apr 22:57

Great explanation, very clear and understandable,
thank you very much Guillaume!

SIDs/STARs shared between the Paris area airports?

e.g. Pontoise operating Le Bourget SIDs/STARs.

SIDs only. LFPT has its own STARs.

From what I have observed, Pontoise is the only airport that shares SID. I once got a SID to MTD that I could not find among the LFPB ARR/DEP (and still cannot even from my armchair), but that has happened only once. In practice you p99 get RV and the LFPB SIDs just give you a hint about you can file as the first en-route waypoint, and the approximate route you will fly to get there. The only SIDs that exist for LFPT are the POGOs, i.e. routes connecting the LFP* airports.


Thanks a lot. But since Toussus is closed tomorrow I’ll fly to Nancy this time.

Is flying SIDs the standard procedure for Toussus?

AFAIK STARs are standard procedure to the Paris group of airports. They may not always tell you explicitly to fly the STAR, but in that case you will be cleared to waypoints on the STAR (edit: so you should load it)

The few times I have flown from Toussus, I got a clearance for a SID.

If you are looking for a destination, Troyes is a nice one and has customs on short notice. For Paris, Pontoise is just as good or better than Toussus because it does not have a curfew. Also Pontoise is unmanned on certain days in April, but is nevertheless open for traffic although “FR only”. No customs there either (for extra-Schengen flights).

Last Edited by Aviathor at 07 Apr 07:24
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